Sunday, 20 November 2016

Losing civilizational moorings

Just summarizing from another thread - where the liberal and progressive moral police took on the immorality of 'imposing Sanskrit on Indians'. And explaining why I am now entering the ranks of moral police, on my own terms of morals. Each of us is answerable to society to present, stand by and defend our conception of morals - honestly and deeply thought out.

I hold no brief for this government - or for any government. A State is top heavy and authoritarian, and were the gram swarajya model possible, it would be a different debate. Having said that - I would like to stick to just the issue. 

Our country has ended up in a state where it despises itself (shown by the overt and covert respect given to him who can speak English fluently, and stumbles over Tamil, compared to him who stumbles over English, and is well versed in Tamil.). That is a deep crisis that we need to face and address urgently and in all ways. A country that does not value itself (and that includes its heritage, its present mores, everything) is lost and defeated.

I suspect when things swing to one insane extreme, as they have done today - with western clothing, language, mores being preferred over all things native - society will swing to the other extreme as a reaction. maybe we need to watch that also. Meantime introspecting and correcting in sane and deep ways, so as to control the takeover of the swing by the rightwing forces. If we wish to simply react to everything, and reject, we can sit talking to the winds.

A young village mother (Paalaguttapalle, Dalitwada) brings up her three children on 1000/- p.m. there are city youth in Chennai who blow up 20,000/- in a night club. Since I heard of this, I am all for heavy handedness and closeing of such clubs.  I am all for moral police. Do you see - when things swing to insane extremes such as this, a society (and I) react violently.
Gutta Rohith Valuing Sanskrit is Valuing our country? Before giving these heavily loaded statements, we should mention our position from which we are giving these statements...It is 'Valuable' only for those highly 'Invaluable' Brahmins...But what about us?
Aparna Krishnan Ayurveda is extremely effective as a medical system. It has benefitted the village I live in (a dalit hamlet - and I hope that satisfies the most virulent anti-casteist) very substantially. And if mainstreamed can benefit the country vastly. Sanskrit is needed to understand the texts effectively.
Aparna Krishnan I hope medicine is secular enough as a subject.
Gutta Rohith A country that does not value itself (and that includes its heritage, its present mores, everything) is lost and defeated./// Just wondering what it means,
Aparna Krishnan Look around. A person speaking good English, and broken Telugu is superior to a person speaking poor English and good telugu. How many wear Indian clothes, and how many western. I suspect it will be very different in arab countries, and countries which were never colonized. Simply look around.

Gutta Rohith a dalit hamlet - and I hope that satisfies the most virulent anti-casteist/// It actually shows the casteist society, and the castesim we had internalized.Romanticizing villages is now replaced by romanticizing Dalit lives.Once upon a time villages were the objects of amusement and now Dalits have successfully occupied that position.At the end of the day, it all comes down to considering Dalits either as 'Victims of Karma' or as 'Objects of Fun'. Never shall we agree that the so called Sanskrit and its caretaker-Hinduism- is responsible for all this. 

Aparna Krishnan I see the vast goodness and generosity they practice and respect the, I see the deep poverty and loss of livelihood and I question the polity, the government and us elites. I have lived as a neighbor and a friend with them for 15 years, and have no interest in defending the accusation that they are objects of my amusement. We can continue a discussion off this thread, and I will be glad to engage. I withdraw from this thread now when the tone of engagement had degenerated. 

Gutta Rohith When you talk about 'Local' languages, i completely agree with you. In fact, I had a bad reputation of being language chauvinist. But Sanksrit is not any 'Local' language. When i say 'Local' language, I mean the language of masses. Sanskrit was never so. It was always the language of the ruling classes ( which is a parasite), the aides of Ruling Classes (Brahmins) who had maintained their power and hegemony by excluding the masses from even learning the language;forget they too mastering the language. 

Aparna Krishnan OK - this is on languages. The discussion on Dalits we will keep aside. Vernaculars are very important. Sanskrit has one importance of being the repository of vast knowledge. I will speak personally for Ayurveda, There is much more. Also much cultural inheritance, the Geeta itself, but as that may again take the discussion on a tangent - we will stick to 'medical systems'.
Gutta Rohith They are very good, generous, practical and all the good adjectives that exist in English. This is what i mean by Romanticizing. They are also Humans like everyone of us. They are also prone to many vulnerabilities. But, while talking about oppressed communities (be it colonial states, Dalits, Oppressed sections and aboriginal communities), the discussion should take into account the Historical Injustice executed to them by the ruling classes.By deliberately ignoring all these issues and completely focusing on an 'Individual' as the center of Discussion, is nothing but romanticizing the community and thereby confining them to 'Objects of Fun'.
Aparna Krishnan There is far greater generosity in the poorest sections than in middle class. I stand by that. When rice is running out, they are able to give to every mendicant who asks. I think it is time to stop only seeing them as 'oppressed' and 'depressed', and also see their vast strengths.
Aparna Krishnan Of course they are criminally poor and undernourished and shorn of livlihoods. Who's denying that - and that has to be answered as the first priority of the country. But when the moral strengths of village communities are related, why does it become 'romanticizing" ? Are we too insecure to see their strengths ? Can we only see they as 'oppressed and suppressed' and us as the 'deliverers' or as 'activists' ?
Gutta Rohith Gondi, Santhali, Munda, Bodo, Telugu, Tamil, Malayalam,Kannada, Marathi, Jharkhandi, Assamese, to that fact any language had/has great repository of vast knowledge. Why don't we teach Gondi (Considered as Mother of Dravidian Languages) in Schools? The knowledge in Sanksrit might be the knowledge of the Individuals who wrote those knowledgeable texts, Whereas the knowledge in these languages is the knowledge of the whole community. In any way, Sanskrit represents a cruel Monopolistic language. Why Geeta?; The text written by the ruling classes. In the previous post, you were talking about the greatness of the oppressed sections. Paradoxical!! Let us start teaching (first of all let us read) the sub-altern texts.Let us start worshiping Ravana, Mahishaasura and other sub-altern and true leaders. 

Gutta Rohith I completely agree that there is far more generosity in the poorest sections. I see them as the 'Strength'. I consider myself as someone who is learning everyday from their strength, which is derived from their relentless fight against this cruel Brahinical society. At the same time, by conveniently ignoring the Injustice we are successfully diverting the topic from Rights to Responsibilities. This is the same argument which is regularly used by Anti-Reservation crusaders. They use it in a raw form. Here it is being used in a refined form. 

Gutta Rohith I am seeing so many contradictory statements here. On one hand, you say that we should learn Sanskrit to equip ourselves with vast knowledge.On the other hand, you agree that the oppressed people are more than the 'Receivers'. When it comes to Sanskrit, i am not able to find any argument similar to this. Selective usage of Morality leads to nothing,but collapse of whole society. Why is only Sanksrit a subject of vast knowledge and not others? Why are the masses only 'Receivables' of this knowledge,who other wise had their own knowledge systems? 

Aparna Krishnan I think this is not anymore a discussion for a common search for truth. Vada as it is called. This is Jalpa, and I will now withdraw from this thread. I will be most happy to engage on a 1-1 basis, or to meet and discuss which is always the best.  
 Claude Alvares Aparna you write for me as well. Thanks.

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