Wednesday 21 March 2018

Pornography

i see discussions on the usefulness of porn.
This was a country that taught the value of control of desires which can engulf one, and also of controlled indulgence. Learning began with the yamas and the niyamas.
I suppose when the time is ripe sanity will again prevail. The flow of time is too vast for us to understand maybe.
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Ashima Raheja Vohra Aparna India has always been a land of contrasts and contradictions be in its terrain , languages , social class, spiritual values and sexuality . We are also the creators of Kamasutras . Accepting and embracing this diversity will make us a true Indian - tolerant of all whatever b our personal values

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Aparna Krishnan I am talking of what values that a society passes on. In my village they give a concept of Dharmam - which includes giving food to everyone, even when food at home is over. The same way the yamas were a connerstone of Dharmam, whicg included asteya (non stealing) and aparigraha (non possession). I for one would not argue that consumerism is a value to be taught to the youngsters at par with simplicity - in the interests of democracy and diversity.

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Aparna Krishnan I think values are black and white - and then each of us pushes as far as we personally wish to, and are able to. Obviously these are just direction givers to an imperfect human being.

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Manish Pandit Porn is not useful. Period.

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Aparna Krishnan Thanks. I think I am old fashioned and like to have clear positions - and not leave things wishy washy claiming 'freedom of speech' or 'democracy'.

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Manish Pandit Aparna Krishnan the number of people who ask me for advice saying that they cant get the images out of their head when they finally start meditation is too many.

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Aparna Krishnan Manish Pandit, very interesting. Thats the kind of addiction is it ? That is being unleashed on a society today - village youth are all heading the cell phone way. And then you would you proceed with 'treating' these people (I assume they come to you as a doctor ?)
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Manish Pandit Aparna Krishnan they come to me as I am experienced in meditation and homa to the Devatas. 
My advice to them is to worship Ganesha in fire as he is Gana-pati and so is lord of the Indriyas (Ganas).
I suppose many people listen to what I have to say about Ayurveda and homa because I am a "trained professional in Western medicine".... the way of our world.

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Naveena CK I don't know. This may just be an eternal thing as far as the world is concerned. It's the individuals who move out of the senses.

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Aparna Krishnan Manish Pandit, I agree. It is a phase when all that is west and western is worshipped into mindlessness. After raving and ranting, I am beginning to feel that Kaala has to take its course, and we need to do what we can do. Naveena CK, I also feel that these truths are eternal. People deviating from these does not bother me so much because as human we are fallible. But when they address the public, supporting irresposnsible behaviour it starts to matter. Because there is a growing generation to whom we owe a perspective and an anchor - and not random thougts supporting a consumerism and mindless self gratification.

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Suraj Kumar Where? Who is saying porn is useful? I want to talk to them.
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Suraj Kumar ^ because vast majority don't even say that and are silent victims of a hundred bilion dollar "Industry".

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Aparna Krishnan Sun Son, here you go. It was posted by a teacher with the 'Do it like the Danish' comment. Well, we will get the world we create and deserve. http://www.theguardian.com/.../pornography-belongs...Manage

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Louis George Porn is consumerism carried to the extreme. When analyzed, pretty much every evil we face is a manifestation of consumerism. And I've come to a similar conclusion. We can rant and rave, and do our best, to turn the tide, but, ultimately, the tide will turn only at the appropriate time. Maybe our efforts will turn the tide sooner, maybe it won't. All we can do is keep trying. 

Fatalistic attitude, I know. But any other attitude will result in either insanity or dejection.

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Aparna Krishnan It is not fatalistic, it is realistic, 'Karmanyavaadhikarasthe ...'. We have freewill and can choose our actions. But the result is always dependent on the prior actions. The actions are of too many players, and of too vast a time for us to even grasp, and thereb y the result in beyond our control, and even understanding. Dharma is defined as (in my understanding) to align our actions with our understanding of that is right, and to accept the results with equanimity. At least that is the Hindu scriptural understanding - and it seems valid to me.

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Louis George That makes more sense than my interpretation. Thank you.

It is also a lot more hopeful and optimistic. Which is a good thing.

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Aparna Krishnan These are things that i have learnt in some classes on the bhagavad geeta, that is all.

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Suraj Kumar I think the teacher has an intention of saying something, but seems like a liberal brain-washed who believes that children have the power of discretion. There is a reason all cultures attempt to not expose children to certain things and reserve it for adult territory - but in this culture, given the access (as pointed out by the teacher), they anyway know it much earlier (I read that kids of age 7 seem to be exchanging naked photos with each other). But is the way forward to 'normalize' the horrible industry called porn? I'm reminded of the recent BBC documentary and the recent incident of a 6 year old child being raped in the same way. Does watching something make it 'normal' in our heads? One data point may not be correlation but it has happened too many times in the past and I'm not sure we can irresponsibly show porn to kids. But education about porn, yes, must be done. How... I don't know. So the teacher may not be all wrong in attempting to start porn education - just probably misguided the means of achieving it due to his own weird beliefs that "porn is useful" (which it certainly is not).

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Aparna Krishnan yes, how to address the various crises that are raining all too fast on us to even grasp is the issue. To address porn trhro' porn, or by a very differnt word view of the yamas and niyamas ? Do we have a choice even ? Or is it a mix-and-match. Do mix-and-match approaches even work, when underlying paradigms are utterly different. I have no answers - only a sense of how I would like things to go.

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Suraj Kumar What I like in all of this is how Krishna's message in the Gita is clear: That morality is relative, that they are 100 and we are 5, that action must be taken because karma is a bitch. (fatalism is the THEME of the entire gita!)
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Aparna Krishnan Absolutely not. It is that every action has a result. the action is ours to choose and the result is ours to take. Freewill is bulit into creation, as also the law of action and result. You drive many cars, and there is global warming, and yes, my village people are in rainlessless. The next question is why are my village people facing te rainlessness - I cannot answer that, and my understanding and studies are very basic. But I have drawn a lot from the Geeta.

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Aparna Krishnan Nobody is questioning sexuality. In Ayurveda the trayah stambha of health is food, sleep and sex incidentally. And there are healthy norms given in great detail for each. The issue here is pornography, an extreme of consumerism as Louis Georgenotes. It is good not to mix up things - freedom, and democracy, and asceiticism, and repression and pooris and halwa in the same breath, and confuse so much that all get chucked out. Best to see each in utter clarity, and then we can work out intelligent position for the entire reality.

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Aparna Krishnan which is why the yamas and niyamas are there. Asteya (non stealing) was listed because it is in our nature to selfishly hoard, which we are doing today as seen by the crimonal disparity around us. Brahmacharya was listed because the sense can pull us in ten directions like ten monkeys. Ahimsa was listed , because our tendency is to hurt unthinkingly by word, thought and deed. Your point is obvious, and no one disputes it.
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