Saturday 21 November 2020

Padmavati Debate - FB


 

It would be good to have a count of those who support M.F.Hussains right to paint Hindu goddesses in the nude.
I completely object.
It is perversion, arrogance, and contempt for the people of the land.
Sonali Rao, Paranthaman Sriramulu and 25 others
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    • 3y
  • Aparna Krishnan
    The operating principle in both Hussain and Bhansali’s case is the same.
    Notice first that in the lexicon of those who are shouting for Hussein the point about not hurting religious sentiments manifestly does not apply to the Hindus: in their case the alternate principle of the right of the artist to paint as he pleases takes precedence. The Hindus notice this duality more and more… depicting women completely naked has for centuries been very much a part of European painting and sculpture tradition; but do the artists not stop at using this tradition for portraying Virgin Mary naked? It is not the freedom of expression these worthies are committed to. They are committed to their having freedom alone.
    This was written in 1996 and as we notice, the situation has progressively worsened in these twenty years. If anything, over the past decade or so, the said MF Hussainification has simply escalated most notably in that abyss of depravity called Bollywood.
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  • Does Sanjay Leela Bhansali Have the Guts to tell the Full Story of Ala-ud-din Khilji?
    MEDIUM.COM
    Does Sanjay Leela Bhansali Have the Guts to tell the Full Story of Ala-ud-din Khilji?
    Does Sanjay Leela Bhansali Have the Guts to tell the Full Story of Ala-ud-din Khilji?
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    • 3y
  • Monica Ramadhenu
    Me too object
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  • Prasath Subramaniam
    Mam. We all have the right to criticize an artform. But do we have the right to resist its very production ?
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    • Ponraj RK
      Why not, if we can object and ban production of poisonous foods, drugs that cause erosion of society why not this obscure representation of gods?
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    • Prasath Subramaniam
      Then sir, the very celebration of festivals like diwali in north is on d killing of demon mahishasura. But he is revered god among some other community. Similar cases prevail in all religions. So, all we can do is to allow all the views to flow in. But to give space for criticism of the artform.
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    • Aparna Krishnan
      People will give a fitting reply. One day. Their gods are their lives. The intellectuals cannot get it.
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    • Lakshman Lakshminarayana
      People have other things to worry about than thinking if someone had drew their gods/goddesses with attire or not and to determine whether it's blasphemy or not.
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    • Aparna Krishnan
      Dont be too sure.
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    • Lakshman Lakshminarayana
      Same to you. Just like you're putting up your personal beliefs and wishes towards the people and communities.
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    • Naveen Manikandan Periasamy
      Lakshman Lakshminarayana
       //Just like you’re putting up your beliefs and wishes towards the people and communities// Irony just killed itself tell times over. Tell that to the painter.
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    • Lakshman Lakshminarayana
      Naveen
       - Really? He pasted his painting over every Indian's face or claimed that his painting is representation of every intellectual in India? Do you really know what an irony is in the first place?
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    • Aparna Krishnan
      Cant you see events unfolding before you Lakshman ? Anyway it will become louder and louder in the time to come.
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    • Ajay Kumar
      అపర్ణా మీరెనా ఇవి రాస్తున్నది !!
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    • Naveen Manikandan Periasamy
      Lakshman Lakshminarayana
       A public personality of certain acclaim takes responsibility for what he says and does as it is watched by millions. It is ridiculous to say that he did not paint it over every Indian's face. Every people have their sensitivities and it should be respected. It would be the height of insensitivity to suggest that Holocaust jokes should be tolerated in Europe. Same goes for defending an obvious iconoclast who takes sadistic pleasure in hurting the sentiments of the masses by denigrating the deities they worship.
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    • Aparna Krishnan
      Ajay Kumar
       my point is different. It is that when people have certian reverances, Gangamma in my village or Padmavathi elsewhere, urbans in the name of artistic freedom have no right to do anything that run contrary to the reverance of people. It is simpe perversion. They can seek their creativity elsewhere.
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    • Lakshman Lakshminarayana
      What a way to compare. I should say I'm rather bemused by the two things you took for comparison. Holocaust and a painting.
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    • Naveen Manikandan Periasamy
      It is a valid comparison 
      Lakshman Lakshminarayana
      . The subject might be vastly different, but sensitivities are the same. Comparisons are an important tool in discourse - especially when the position taken by one side is unreasonable and hypocritical. It is different from whataboutery that you indulge in with Khajuraho. The day you open your mouth in support of the murdered DK activist Farook, stand in solidarity with Sanal Edamaruku or support 
      Kalavai Venkat
      's harsh censuring of Christianity, we will call your views balanced.
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    • Lakshman Lakshminarayana
      Naveen
       - You really don't know me, so please stop judging based on a comment I make in a thread. I don't need to prove you what I reacted for Farook's killing or if I had glorified all other religions except Hinduism. You need to tread carefully while having a discussion by keeping the thread limited to the crux of the subject than rather certifying others based on their comments.
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  • முரளி கே
    He deserved to be prosecuted for that
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  • Balasubramaniam Muthusamy
    It is not, is my humble opinion. Being an Indian, he had just followed our tradition of sculpting our gods and goddesses nude and took it to the next level.
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    • Aparna Krishnan
      Let him pain his god of his religion in that way. If he so desires artistic freedom. And if has the guts !
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    • Aparna Krishnan
      Plain perversion.
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    • Balasubramaniam Muthusamy
      Aparna - this is the problem - you see him as a muslim. I see him as an Indian. He comes from the sect of islam which follows Indian ethos. We had a vidwan called Shiek Chinna moulana who played Nadaswaram - and most of our music is hindu devotional an… 
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    • முரளி கே
      Even a Hindu doing it will not be ok
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    • எம்.எ·ப்..ஹ¤ஸெய்ன்,இந்து தாலிபானியம்
      JEYAMOHAN.IN
      எம்.எ·ப்..ஹ¤ஸெய்ன்,இந்து தாலிபானியம்
      எம்.எ·ப்..ஹ¤ஸெய்ன்,இந்து தாலிபானியம்
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    • Balasubramaniam Muthusamy
      then demolish all the temples as all of them have nude sculptures of gods and goddesses like the way Taliban destroyed Baamiyan Budhha statues..
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    • Aparna Krishnan
      You have to move with the ordinary people of this land, immerse absorb their ethos. Intellectual discussions and positions are sterile.
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    • முரளி கே
      Most temples don't have them
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    • Aparna Krishnan
      Like pornography is defended quoting Kharuraho. Im out of this, and all intellectual positionings. People will give a fitting answer. One day.
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    • Balasubramaniam Muthusamy
      aparna, we are taking too much of a moralistic stance which is not native to India in the first place. If you read abhirami anthathi, abhuirama pattar sings the beauty of Goddess and her body. So does every great epic of our land. That's our tradition. I will not call that as pornography. If you do not like it - you can stay away - The ethos of ordinary people - have no issues - they understand - else, we won't be praying the Lord shiva in its present form in all temples. Probably we can leave this discussion at this.
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    • Balasubramaniam Muthusamy
      முரளி கே
       - every temple has nude sculpture - all our gods and goddesses are nude is the reality and our tradition.
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    • Aparna Krishnan
      The people decide what is acceptable and what is not, regarding their gods and their customs. Nobody elses business.. They will speak out. Louder and louder. It has started. The elite have ruled the sound waves too long.
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    • Balasubramaniam Muthusamy
      Aparna - it is not elite Vs others in this case - it is our culture. By this token, you should ban all dance forms - In the case of Husain, ordinary people who fight for a daily living did not raise any issues - it is the fundamentalist thugs who creates the issues. Ordinary people have a great way of handling this - if they do not like it - they stay away which is the best form of handling dissent. When I go to pray in Kapaleeshwarar temple, I go there fully understanding why do I pray to shiva as all my forefathers did for thousands of years. as we talk, I realise, very strangely, it is peoples deities - like karuppa samy or muniasamy - all of them are dressed up properly.. It is the hindu elite gods which are nude..
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    • Naveen Manikandan Periasamy
      Balasubramaniam Muthusamy
       I think you need to take a good look at the paintings. They are explicitly pornographic and suggestive. It is not the same as Khajuraho where deities worshipped by people are not used. Hussain is a crass iconoclast is obvious and it is takes extreme naïveté not to see that.
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  • Mahalakshmi Parthasarathy
    Personal choices and beliefs have to be respected I totally agree but one can never say violence is acceptable to put forth ones viewpoint . The law of the land has to be followed. Cutting off noses , is violence has to be condemned ..they can go to the courts get a stay order - more better if those who object show their numbers by not watching there ends the padmavati story ..
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    • Aparna Krishnan
      If the deepest beliefs of people are attacked, their gods and their customs, it will not me for you or me to pontificate on their responses. A la Jallikattu. The times will throw up many more issues, just wait. Some communities will take it more peacefully, some less so.
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    • Mahalakshmi Parthasarathy
      Sadly the violence also crushes the weakest ...and jallikattu I feel if people who support native breeds should stop drinking regular milk and stick to native breeds ..pontification happens when they become political and forget to lead the traditional lifestyle and they look for symbolic victories- I wonder how many have taken to their native breeds after that struggle?
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  • முரளி கே
    I don't support what bajrang dal threatened to do to Hussain. But he evaded law and lacked conviction
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    • Balasubramaniam Muthusamy
      it was his choice - an artist needs peace of mind - is not a business man to waste his time in courts. Similar troubles happened to an actress when she expressed her opinion on sex and there 100s of cases filed in every district court - it is a standard tactic by thugs.
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    • முரளி கே
      That can't be compared with this. She didn't talk about anyone specific. And if he can't waste time in the courts like us mortals he deserved to live in exile
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    • Balasubramaniam Muthusamy
      yes. India does not deserve to have an artist like Hussain.
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    • முரளி கே
      Not an artist but an arrogant moron
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    • Balasubramaniam Muthusamy
      good to know your expert view. The world has other opinions on this man.
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    • முரளி கே
      A coward who escaped law.
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  • Lakshman Lakshminarayana
    It's not. I had seen enough nude sculptures in Temples and other places. If nudity is seen as obscenity, then many puranas are nothing less than Erotica. Tiruppavai and Naachiyaar thirumozhi has obscene (so called) references to the private parts of Krishna and his Girl friends. However it's within your right to tell the painting is obscene, and it's within MF's right to draw what he feels right....
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    • Naveen Manikandan Periasamy
      This is BS. The nude sculptures outside temples are not that of Parvathy or Laksmi Devi. You must have read one of those Wendy Donniger like obscene translations of Tiruppavai.
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  • ஸ்ரீராமதாஸ் மகாலிங்கம்
    Akka, just draw Prophet Mohammed. Everything exposed. A drama with Mohammed dressed isn't tolerable to these.
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  • Balasubramaniam Muthusamy
    so what? if one religion does not permit, should I follow the same? Hinduism is a great way of looking at life. why should it become a Xerox copy of another religion?
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  • Ayshwarya Vijayendran
    Disclaimer: I am not affiliated to any political party in India. This is a very big rant
    I am very curious about the reactions of my fellow countrymen/ woman regarding the above topic.
    Karni Sena wanting to cut off Depika’s nose is ridiculous.
    Padmavati may have been a work of fiction, originally written by a Muslim poet during Khalji period.
    To put it in perspective, so is silapadhigaram.
    Both works were responses to the social practices of that particular period. They give us an insight into the prevailing customs- and the reason the customs came into being.
    Sati was prevalent in India, and as far as all Puranas/ historical texts go it was voluntary. I am not commenting the merits and demerits of the practice. It existed in the past and we have moved on from it in the last 100 years or so.
    The queen wanted to protect her honour and committed sati instead of submitting to the invaders will. It may also be seen as a final act of defiance.
    But. Why is the movie director distorting a legitimate work of fiction, a Muslim poets work? What is the need to glorify an invader, especially by claiming that Padmavati May have had feelings for him?
    1. If the argument is that it is a democracy and artistic license should prevail, how SHOULD people react in the following situations?
    a. Suppose a film is made about silapadhigaram, and If a slight is made against Kannagi, should we sit quietly and reconcile because it is only a work of fiction and 2020 india is a democracy?
    b. an imaginary duet between draupadi and karna/ duriyodhana, because a leader of a major regional party even doubted the existence of Rama?
    I am totally confused 🤷‍♀️ by the popular reactions. Why is there a compulsive need to glorify the Islamic invasion of India? Why not acknowledge it for what it was and move on instead of trying to introduce a love triangle at every opportunity #JodhaAkbar. Qutub Minar still stands as a testimony to the fact that a temple was demolished, defaced and in place a minaret was erected. The architect in me appreciates the structure, while also conscious of the fact that the temple was destroyed for a political reason which was to demoralise the local subjects by destroying their core faith.
    This is happening in modern india and the flag bearers are people who grew up hearing the Gita and Ramayana. 😥😥
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    • Balasubramaniam Muthusamy
      What is the need to glorify an invader, especially by claiming that Padmavati May have had feelings for him?
      - have you seen the film? Because, others who have seen the film have not reported this. Do you have any evidence?
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    • Ayshwarya Vijayendran
      If the director did not distort the original work of art, kudos to him.
      My point is about the reaction to the actions of karni sena. It’s more to do with the justification of such a distortion and an argument that in a democracy, such things should be allowed.
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    • Balasubramaniam Muthusamy
      when Maniratnam made his Raavan, there were hues of a possible attraction between the modern sita and Raavan. the concept of a modern rigid Ram who wants to uphold the rules of a ruling elite and an emotional Raavan who wants to fight for his people - it has been a brilliant interpretation of a puranam. what is wrong?
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    • Balasubramaniam Muthusamy
      Ayshwarya Vijayendran
       first lets have evidence that the director has distorted the fiction. The issue can only start after that.
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    • Balasubramaniam Muthusamy
      M T Vasudevan Nair, jnanpeeth award winner wrote rendamoozham - an interpretation of Mahabharatham from the point of view of Bheem which was again an interpretation. Art is beyond the normal lives and norms - lets learn to give that space for them - you can take what you want and leave what you don't like
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    • Balasubramaniam Muthusamy
      puthumai pithan who is considered as a great writer in Tamil, has interpreted Agaligai in a different context..where she decides to become a stone again..
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    • Lakshman Lakshminarayana
      What's the big deal if Padmavati had feelings? Even if the movie had shown such things ? You have every right to boycott the movie?
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    • Balasubramaniam Muthusamy
      even Bharathi's panchali sabatham is an interpretation of mahabharatham.. and when Kamban wrote ramayanam, he interpreted to the local context
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    • Ayshwarya Vijayendran
      A rule book king, his wife and a rebel could have been anybody, but why Rama and Sita? Ramayana is not even a work of fiction. It is an Ithihaasa. Millions and millions of Hindus believe that Rama had walked upon the Indian subcontinent. As an Ithihaasa, it is considered as that which took place and Valmiki had merely reported it.
      No Hindu would accept that Sita lost her honour when Ravana abducted her. Her devotion and love for Rama is the type of Bhakti that is central to the very existence of sanathana dharma.
      But manirathan had the audacity to suggest that Sita May have had attraction for Ravana and it is been justified as a brilliant interpretation in this forum.
      He has made the movie and the damage is done. 200 years later, there could be another take on ramanaya and justify mani rathnams work.
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    • Lakshman Lakshminarayana
      You should speak for yourselves, not for all the Hindus in Earth. There comes the problem.
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    • Balasubramaniam Muthusamy
      https://en.wikipedia.org/.../Three_Hundred_Ramayanas... - Maniratnam is not the first one to do this. The reality is that there are many versions of Ramayana - as the above link of A K Ramanujan's banned article says. There are people's Ramayana and there was a version of subramaniya bharathi's Ramayana as well - when you want to freeze certain things and decree that it should not change - it starts becoming stale - any lively society - will keep changing - and many versions will emerge in a pluralistic society - that means that the values of the society is changing - when puthumaipthan wrote saaba vimosanam, where agaligai realizes the injustice done to sita who was asked to walk in fire to prove her chastity, she could not believe that his Ram did this to Sita and decides to become a stone again - that's a brilliant interpretation of Ramayana in a modern context. you may not like - but you cannot stop it
      EN.WIKIPEDIA.ORG
      Three Hundred Ramayanas: Five Examples and Three Thoughts on Translation - Wikipedia
      Three Hundred Ramayanas: Five Examples and Three Thoughts on Translation - Wikipedia
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    • Balasubramaniam Muthusamy
      Ayshwarya Vijayendran
       when you say no hindu would accept - you are not factually right - Raavan was a devote Hindu as well and the values of those days permits abduction of women. It was normal.
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    • Lakshman Lakshminarayana
      Balasubramaniam
       - You didn't see the point? The loss of 'honour'
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    • Balasubramaniam Muthusamy
      Ayshwarya Vijayendran
       "No Hindu would accept that Sita lost her honour when Ravana abducted her. Her devotion and love for Rama is the type of Bhakti that is central to the very existence of sanathana dharma." - then what will you call Draupadhi? who was married to 5 men? - I just want to point out, there are certain values which are bound to be interpreted as the society moves forward. Hinduism was always flexible (though reluctantly) to allow the changes - we are better off understanding that. When, Gandhiji was fighting temple entry, Kanchi sankaracharya met him to dissuade to give up the fight. Today, there is no such opposition - it has become an accepted practice in atleast in major temples. If today, a women wants to live without marriage or to have kids without marriage - all options are available - as the society is in a different stage now.
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    • Ayshwarya Vijayendran
      Balasubramaniam Muthusamy
       you are right, there are values. Draupadhi is worshipped/ venerated for a set of reasons. But she is not revered in the same status as Sita Mata.
      The status is not because Draupadi was married to 5 men and Sita was Rama’s wife. It is because of the level of faith, Bakthi and love towards paramathma himself.
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    • Aparna Krishnan
      The educated intellectualize endlessly. They are too alienated from the faith of the people.
      And so they keep getting shocked at the responses of people, when the people do not stick to their theories !
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    • Balasubramaniam Muthusamy
      aparna - I come from a poor family and a village similar to where you live - I know what it is to be poor. Hence, please listen to what I say without closing me completely with your preconceived "english educated elite" remark. In common man's lives, there are certainly lot of beliefs and customs. No one is disrespecting the same - However, as the society moves forward, many of those customs change - and artists unlike everyone, look and interpret these things. When some one thinks Ram is paramathma, a great writer like Puthumaipithan or Bharthi questions that - and that's how the interpretations come about - which is part of the evolutionary process. And the society has space for such things. While Kannagi is celebrated for his virtues, there was space for Madhavi whose Daughter Manimegalai comes with akshayapatra - I will tend to rate Madhavi's contribution to humanity is more profound than kannagi - these are all interpretations - someone might be praying that kannagi as goddess. The society should have the flexibility and freedom to allow such various interpretations of life. While, I will respect ayshwarya vijayendran's belief that Ram is paramthma - allow me to believe that Draupadi is probably a descendant from a matriarchical society - which was a reality in Kerala till one century back. Malayali women had many husbands - that does not make them any less hindu or bad. It was part of the social system prevalent there - in trying to narrow down everything into a singular narrative, you are doing a great injustice to the comman men and women. while I agree to your economic view which I fully subscribe to, your religious and cultural views are narrow and fundamentalistic.
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    • Lakshman Lakshminarayana
      Nobody owns the faith of all people, as you claim and it's down to individuals to weigh between what's faith and what's belief and what's nonsense.
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    • Aparna Krishnan
      Exactly. And people will respond, and have started to. It is stupid to think that they are sheep moving according policians machinations. It would be wise to have ones ear to the ground.
      Balasubramaniam Muthusamy
      , I would respect the deepest faiths of… 
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    • Balasubramaniam Muthusamy
      aparna - relax - am including a video of someone who has seen the film
      0:00 / 3:08
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    • Aparna Krishnan
      Hes just another english educated character. Please give me the response of a rajput housewife. A shoemaker. I listen to people.
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    • Balasubramaniam Muthusamy
      aparna - how can a film be sent to everyone before censoring? let the censor clear it - let them watch and if they have issues, lets discuss then. you are being obstinate. by this yardstick, Attenborough would not have made Gandhi. C'mon
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    • Aparna Krishnan
      Padmavati is a peg for my point. He may be stoking rumours to step up the bocx office. MFH is a cut and dried case. The sentiments of people cannot be hurt for 'creative kicks'. Anyway the people will fight their battles, I rest the case.
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    • Balasubramaniam Muthusamy
      with due respects to the great work you are doing, I would humbly submit - creative kicks will be there come what may you do to prevent (without even first understanding.) They are the leaders who change the world - we may not like it. It was not fashi… 
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    • Aparna Krishnan
      To each his own understanding.
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    • Arindam Ghosh
      That is the point. Let the housewife and shoemaker see the movie and see if they want to protest. How can you guess what is in the movie?
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    • Aparna Krishnan
      Ayshwarya Vijayendran
       I re read this thread now. Those who could not understand your point, very clearly made, cannot understand India either. But it really does not matter !
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  • Aparna Krishnan
    The english educated are a minority, and hopefully an endangered minority. The people have their customs in the here and now, their beliefs, their faiths. The deracinated cannot even tune into it.
    As the MFHs and Bhansals play around, and the educated… 
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  • Does Sanjay Leela Bhansali Have the Guts to tell the Full Story of Ala-ud-din Khilji?
    MEDIUM.COM
    Does Sanjay Leela Bhansali Have the Guts to tell the Full Story of Ala-ud-din Khilji?
    Does Sanjay Leela Bhansali Have the Guts to tell the Full Story of Ala-ud-din Khilji?
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    • 3y
    • Aparna Krishnan
      My friend sent me this. He has his feet firmly on the ground in Rajasthan. He confirmed that Padmavathi is a living faith for people.
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      • 3y
    • Balasubramaniam Muthusamy
      and why are you presuming that he has distorted the popular story - have you seen it?
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    • Lakshman Lakshminarayana
      That will never be answered. Nobody had seen the Elephant but all claim it's has white tusk. And if asked, we became 'English educated intellectuals'.
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      • 3y
    • Naveen Manikandan Periasamy
      Balasubramaniam Muthusamy
       Yes, that may be the case. So why didn't the Bhansali and his marketing team come forward to clear this misunderstanding? Isn't it a cheap trick to garner publicity for the movie through controversy?
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  • Balasubramaniam Muthusamy
    aparna - you are wrong. A K Ramanjuan is a celebrated poet and is considered an authority in South East Asisn studies. his translation of Sangam poetry as Poems and Love and war is considered as a classic rendering. By ignoring such a great class of work as English speaking elite, you are the loser. What Ramanujan presents is the people's version of Ramayana which is common man' Ramayana and not the elite rendering by Valmiki and Kamban. I am just pointing out that these epics have variations in rendering and the pluralism needs to be appreciated - and what you are saying that one version is the only way - This is what one would call a fundamentalist view -
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    • 3y
  • Shobana Ramkumar
    I object too
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    • 3y
  • Paranthaman Sriramulu
    Guys, may I know which temples have nude gods?. We cover all gods with clothes, jewels, flowers; the same way we follow. Yes, there are some statues depicting some activities as art and education. However they are not for sale or doing commercial business. They put in temple because to have some sacredness not for cheap publicity
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    • 3y
    • Manick Rajendran
      Paranthaman Sriramulu, may I inbox you a photo of a sculpture in Mylapore Kapaleeswarar Koil. Since this is 
      Aparna Krishnan
      ’s timeline, I do not wish put it in display. At the same time, I’m not trying to make a point. Just to let you know that there ARE sculptures in front of our eyes. Nudity and sex were not frowned upon in earlier times. Nor am I advocating that anyone should parade in the nude now.
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      • 3y
    • Manick Rajendran
      By the way, the sculpture is right at the entrance to the main deity, less than 20 feet away.
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      • 3y
  • Dipankar Khasnabish
    Everyone has a right to support or oppose. But I am still not clear about many issues:
    1. People do things - they also pay price for their belief. Charlie Hebdo paid with life, Hussain being a pariah motherland.
    2. Hussain is not the only one to paint or draw Goddess in the nude - not now, not is past.
    3. Putting everything is a view of intellectuals is a narrow view - that is a cult by itself.
    4. Bhansali has not taken the responsibility of doing all that we want him to do. If we want and have conviction, we can do ourselves.
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  • Niranjan Sukhlecha
    Only if #hussain stood up for the right of others to depict the prophet in many ways.
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    Hide 16 Replies
    • Aparna Krishnan
      That cowardice the proponents of MFH and his 'artistic freedom' are blind to !
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    • Niranjan Sukhlecha
      No reason for #Hussain to feel so entitled and privileged in my mind or he sticks to drawing horses. 😂
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    • Dipankar Khasnabish
      Again what Hussain did is his personal choice, he could have done so many things.
      He did what he did, and was answerable for that. What he did not do, and could have done - is speculation.
      I have seen many debates coming to this - that what has been done, and whether they would have done what they would have done in some other time/ place/ religion/ community.
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      • 3y
    • Aparna Krishnan
      Hes doing this just to provoke, there are millions of other nude images he can draw for his pleasure. The Muslims would never take it, were it done to their gods and prophets. The Hindus are mild, and take it. But I suspect the breaking point has come.
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      • 3y
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    • Balasubramaniam Muthusamy
      really surprised to see such a narrow and Hindutva view from someone like you. Hinduism is not a singular, narrow religion. It is a congregation of many philosophies. And the work of Husain is in line with Hindu tradition - he did it - because he is an Indian. Asking why he has not done on his religion exposes your bigotic mindset -sorry to use it again. Someone like you, who is doing a great work with common man - taking such a narrow view is unfortunate. I can understand that you do not appreciate art - but try and understand their world - they don't do things to insult anything. They are great artistes and they enrich a great tradition. Rukmani Devi arundale took the dance form from Devadasis and enriched by creating an institution around it. That's exactly Husain has done it. Your narrow eyes are looking the entire work as a work of a muslim. Sad and unfortunate.
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      • 3y
    • Niranjan Sukhlecha
      I guess we are only talking of Hussain's narrow-mindedness, if at all 😂
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    • Aparna Krishnan
      My village people will echo my response. They respect their gods, and will not tolerate them being painted in the nude. They will agree with this being cheap, and perverted. I go with the understandings of the common man. That has suited me best. Than the intellectuializations of the elite. thanks.
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    • Balasubramaniam Muthusamy
      great aparna. pls do remember, in the world, there are other opinions as well and they do matter. I will probably share painter Marudu who has painted local deities - and there will be no issues as the local deities are fully dressed up
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      • 3y
    • Dipankar Khasnabish
      Looks like we want to demean Muslims on one side, and then make a case for being like them.
      Why bother about what Muslims will do - why not focus what you and I will do, from first principles.
      BTW what is meant by "for his pleasure"? I hope artistic pleasure, not hedonistic pleasure.
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      • 3y
      • Edited
    • Dipankar Khasnabish
      Yes, you are free to have your view and contest views on the basis of content. But the whole mix up of English education, elite, urban, Muslim, intellectual give me a feeling of exactly the same thing which you are attacking - "I do stay with the villagers and I know the best". That behoves of an intellectual entitlement.
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      • 3y
    • Dipankar Khasnabish
      I have seen Ma Kali in the nude from childhood. Looks someone will say now that his/ her sentiment is hurt - and she needs to be covered. Or Durga who is regularly portrayed in the bare before her clothes are put up.
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      • 3y
    • Dipankar Khasnabish
      Not Hussain - and I am not sure why she did not portray something from another religion.
      Vandals attack artist, ‘semi-nude’ painting at art summit - Times of India
      TIMESOFINDIA.INDIATIMES.COM
      Vandals attack artist, ‘semi-nude’ painting at art summit - Times of India
      Vandals attack artist, ‘semi-nude’ painting at art summit - Times of India
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      • 3y
    • Aparna Krishnan
      I have clearly said that people decide what is OK for their culture, and their gods. Kali's devotees may have one choice, and that is their choice and right.
      I have said clearly that my friend from Rajasthan has clarified to me that Padnavati is revered there. Their reverance and modes are theirs and their right.
      Now if you tell me that mocking these is also someone elses right, we are on differenrt pages.
      If you have still not understood what I am saying, lets drop it. No problem.
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      • 3y
    • Dipankar Khasnabish
      Some Kali devotees may be hurt - maybe they have not expressed.
      Maybe we will see a flurry of FIR during Durga Puja. Maybe we will know that beast that was released on Hussain may not be easy to contain.
      In India, any goon can stand on the road, break few buses and make the nation hostage.
      Adivasis Dance Today: The First Ever FIR Filed Against Durga Puja
      COUNTERCURRENTS.ORG
      Adivasis Dance Today: The First Ever FIR Filed Against Durga Puja
      Adivasis Dance Today: The First Ever FIR Filed Against Durga Puja
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      • 3y
      • Edited
    • Aparna Krishnan
      Utter disregard, contempt for the sentiments of the people is the byline. Of Hussain, and of his army of supporters. The 'Artistic Freedom' warriors.
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      • 3y
  • Arindam Chatterjee
    I am sorry to say but I don't think any of you have seen Hussain's Saraswati? Let's start the debate with how many of you have... ?
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    • 3y
  • Arindam Chatterjee
    I absolutely support M.F. Hussain.
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    • 3y
  • Niranjan Sukhlecha
    I think it is great Hussain offers us his expertise and he should and we should all keep it to that rather than get carried away in debates or adulation
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    • 3y
    • Edited
  • Arindam Chatterjee
    No answer. Well how many of you have watched SLB's Padmavati? I shiver to think that before watching anything this whole country has erupted into a debate about artist's rights before even watching the items in question. And all of us are responsible citizens... Have you heard of Konarak mandir. Khajuraho... Our painters have drawn nude goddesses thousands of times in history and now.
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    • 3y
  • Arindam Chatterjee
    And perhaps I see people drfting towards the Karni Sena Surya Sena narrative. BJP wanted the release date postponed of Padmavati. That was 45 days back. When the producers refused, this is what the ruling party came out with. We are actually helping them achieve their sinister goals. Unbelievable. Doesn't anyone read the shameful politics between the lines
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    • 3y
  • Unmasking Padmavati : How Jaisi's Anti-Feudal Tale Has Been Twisted to Support a Fascist Narrative - Caravan Daily
    CARAVANDAILY.COM
    Unmasking Padmavati : How Jaisi's Anti-Feudal Tale Has Been Twisted to Support a Fascist Narrative - Caravan Daily
    Unmasking Padmavati : How Jaisi's Anti-Feudal Tale Has Been Twisted to Support a Fascist Narrative - Caravan Daily
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    • 3y
  • Aparna Krishnan
    From my friend based there.
    "Its personally painful since I spent 17 years in Chittorgarh.. too emotionally attached to stories to be objective or intellectual. So I refrain from this debate. We don't care if she was fiction or attracted to khilji.. the story is more than a story.. it's like ingrained in the air and walls and soils of the place. Something sacrosanct. So I have my own bias.. that is despite being sociology student and understanding variations in history.. I can imagine the common peopl's attachment. More than anything it hurts to see the city and the story in news for all the wrong reasons..its like someone took something very dear to us, made a mockery of it and are analysing of it was good or bad a mockery."
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    • 3y
    • Aparna Krishnan
      I suggest that personal comments be deleted.
      If you cannot understand simple emotions of simple people, I am sorry. For you. I end here.
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      • 3y
    • Balasubramaniam Muthusamy
      aparna, I request, pls watch the film before making comments - it does not make sense otherwise. the rest is just gossip
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      • 3y
    • Manick Rajendran
      Balasubramaniam Muthusamy
       while i would refrain from making a reference to 
      Aparna Krishnan
      ’s credentials which makes it personal, I too would enjoin her to not make sweeping statements without verifying the facts.
      There is a larger game at play, where ruthless goondas prey on movie producers for a piece of the pie. In the process, they use sentiments of people to create the chaos that then benefits them at the negotiation table.
      Nevertheless, I’d like to point out that a repeated prediction by Aparna that there is an uprising coming, need not necessarily be true. Life goes on in India and values have been in a compromised state for too long for any one set of folks to take a moral high ground and effect a “revolution”.
      In this case, if a storyline of a movie is not acceptable, they will just avoid watching and move on to their next challenge, especially the impoverished brethren for whom life is a toil.
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      • 3y
      • Edited
    • Manick Rajendran
      Aparna Krishnan
       indignation of the few are short-lived and do not carry much conviction to fuel a long-standing stand-off that is required for an “uprising”.
      Many of us on here who read your posts and care to comment, do really care. Otherwise, we will be true to your accusation of being “deracinated” and dismiss your every post. Many of us are also doing our bit to battle injustices, to help our brethren and so on.
      In travels around the State, I do see shades of the village and the various people you describe. Even in towns. But along with those characteristics, I also notice they have the other behaviour patterns of the modern world. While they use some home remedies, they also go to allopaths, watch TV, have a world view beyond their physical borders and generally go along with what the world serves them with.
      While local sustainability is a factor, people are also aspirational. They want their kids to be “educated”, go to towns, earn well and have a happy life. During that process, they are willing to have a short life for their indignation.
      This too shall pass, but your views seem to get tighter.
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      • 3y
  • Alwar Narayanan
    Dear Madam. It is waste of time discussing this. You have successfully got trapped into the vicious circle of emotional card being played by divisive forces. At the end of the day this film is a grand success. Mark my words you and me also will watch out of curiosity. At the end of the day the ruling party has successfully diverted attention away from mainstream issues.
    The real Padmavati's on the road are crying for help. They are all around the place live and limping. The God of yore will punish the evil. history cannot be changed by anyone. Why worry ? It is only the vested interests that are bloating an issue and debating for and against.
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    • 3y
      • Balasubramaniam Muthusamy
        the establishment in rajasthan will get benefitted doing noting to the poor padmavathis
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        • 3y
        • Edited
      • Alwar Narayanan
        I agree. People who are really concerned know truth (here history) will always prevail. In TN there are so many atheists who insult icons of God. But has anyone bothered. Hinduism has survived thousands of years and it will. In fact critics are welco… 
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        • 3y
      • Balasubramaniam Muthusamy
        they play the role of the critiques - idippaarai illa emaara mannan keduppaar illaanum kedum -
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        • 3y
      • Alwar Narayanan
        Here is a country where a politician is successful in whipping sentiments of innocents for votes. Crores of people's sentiment in TN was burried alive by these thugs, successfully suppressing the secrecy of death in front of camera when billions were … 
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      • Alwar Narayanan
        By the way the owner of this company which took Padmavati is Mukesh Ambani who also funds parties. Therefore the circle is complete. this is a whipped up and funded controversy in all channels to hype the film. They are fooling even the educated who genuinely care for people.

     

To all the deracinated proponents of Artistic Freedom, and of the theory that ordinary Indians dont care if their gods are mocked, and look the other way,

My friend Kriti Bhardwaj "Its personally painful since I spent 17 years in Chittorgarh.. too emotionally attached to stories to be objective or intellectual. So I refrain from this debate. We don't care if she was fiction or attracted to khilji.. the story is more than a story.. it's like ingrained in the air and walls and soils of the place. Something sacrosanct. So I have my own bias.. that is despite being sociology student and understanding variations in history.. I can imagine the common peopl's attachment. More than anything it hurts to see the city and the story in news for all the wrong reasons..its like someone took something very dear to us, made a mockery of it and are analysing of it was good or bad a mockery."
Kindly extrapolate to MFHussains antics also. And to all those who fight the good fight for his right to that.
Subha Bharadwaj, Paranthaman Sriramulu and 6 others
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  • Aparna Krishnan
    "Mainstream movies have deeper penetration than we think they do. If they cannot raise important and uncomfortable questions on issues that actually matter they should stop fingering with something that is so dear and sacred."
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    • 3y
  • Sanjaya Ganesh
    I totally agree with her. However, my only surprise is how this had clouded entire media space and public minds with zero coverage for thousands of farmers protesting on the streets of Delhi for last couple of days 🙁 - misplaced media priorities and public minds ?
    Or thinking aloud was this manipulation a planned strategy to divert attention?
    Image may contain: 7 people, people smiling
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  • Subha Bharadwaj
    That's the distraction tactic used by the govt through media
    Image may contain: 13 people, people smiling
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  • Sanjay Maharishi
    This whole issue is most amusing. The film hasn't been released yet. Nobody knows what it is about. His last movie called Mastani Bajirao, seemed it was tailor made for the likes of shiv sena. I have least interest in this one. In any case the point is, nobody really knows what it is about.
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    • 2y
    • Aparna Krishnan
      This is a peg for me. The point is that the elite cannot trample over the feelings of those they consider masses, for their creative urges.
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      • 2y
  • Lakshman Lakshminarayana
    Again the same funny rant and cry of prejudice without even seeing a movie.
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    • 2y
  • Aparna Krishnan
    The story has been planted for box office gains. . People have risen. IT was Jallikattu earlier, now this. You will see more in times to come. Culture ranks very high for people. And gods. Not the culture of elite in rich settings. But the culture that is part of the soil of the land.
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    • 2y
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  • Lakshman Lakshminarayana
    Jallikattu is not just a belief, it's a practice that is meant to save native breeds and there was hue and cry of pseudo compassion by activists. And if you're claiming Karni Sena as people or people's representative, you're actually calling people 'Dumb' and 'savage' which is not the reality.
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    • 2y
  • Aparna Krishnan
    Words are being put into my mouth. I'm stopping here. Thanks.
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    • 2y
  • Uma Shankari
    Pl. atleast see the movie before passing comments. Everyone is entitled to views. In Ramayana a washerman makes a insidious comment on Seetha and Rama; Rama being the king could have done him to death or clubbed him or put a price on his head...like the Rajasthan fellows are doing. well he did not do any of it. People must be able to mock at themselves also and bear some cartoons and comments ...If you don't like a book, or a film, get up and walk out; why go protest in the streets? after all it is not obscene film; it has been certified by the censor board.!. If it



From the mass uprising for jallikattu and its emotional connect, the english educated realized that they had lost the pulse of the people. The 'I speak for the bull' elite had lost the plot.
The Padmavati narrative is not very different, where a deeply revered figure has in reality, or as in a planted rumour, been mocked at. The elite with their narrative of 'dumb people are playing to the machinations of politicians' have not faced the fact that people are hurt, deeply. Again the elite have lost the plot.
The english educated, who have been educated out of their roots, would do well to stop, and start relearning in humility from the people, from these and other unfolding narratives. In India, more than many places, man does not live by bread alone. his gods are very important to him. His cultural underpinnings.
That is the last bastion.
These are my learnings from 20 years in a village.


Sanjaya Ganesh
Anyone who feels OK with the controversy must watch the ghoomar in this movie. Here it is - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cKErCWrb44. Even I felt very offended to see Rani Padmini (who stands for courage) dancing in front of Kilji look-alike who is a third grade invader. Is it not outrageous? Just watch this...
It is like showcasing in a movie Gandhi having back door talks with British and taking money. What will you do if a movie shows that? Seeing Ghoomar song even I feel offended. And as I understand this song which is already released and seen by millions is the source of controversy. Not that people are commenting without seeing anything


Sanjaya Ganesh
When I hear Gandhi - honesty and truth comes to my mind. When I hear Rani Padmini - courage of womanhood comes to my mind. When I hear hitler, viiolent psychopath comes to my mind. You release a trailer of a Gandhi movie showing Gandhi taking bribe, release a trailer showing padmini dancing to appease people and so on - this is what happens. You hit the wrong notes. Simple psychology - I am surprised none gets it


  • Jibin Joy Varghese
    Sanjaya Ganesh
     So you’re trying to tell that Rani Padmini never danced? If you know about the Rajput culture dance was a part of it too. Who knows may be Rani padmini danced too. And how is dancing offensive? As per Hindu mythology Lord Shiva does the thandavam dance. Does that mean it is offensive as he is a God?
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    • 3y
  • Ritoja M
    What a 14th century queen did or did not do in the privacy of her zanana is documented somewhere ? How can anyone be so categorical about what she did or did not do ?
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    • 3y
  • Sanjaya Ganesh
    You are totally missing my point. It is about how you present things before full movie unfolds... Anyways, have a great day !!
  • Jibin Joy Varghese
    Sanjaya Ganesh
     There is no point Mr.Sanjaya. Your first point was Ghoomar song, it was proven false. Second one was Rani padmini dancing, wrong point again. What other point did we miss?
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    • 3y
  • Aparna Krishnan
    I have no idea if its dumbness, or perversion - missing the simple point about sensitivities of people. Or just joblessness now.
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    • 3y
  • Sanjaya Ganesh
    Jibin Joy Varghese
     - I have no other point. YOu win, my friend !! I surrender and accept my error 🙂 of having argued


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