Paalaguttapalle (Dalitwada) - A Village: Is Samskritham 'Brahminical'

https://www.facebook.com/turiya.kathyayani/posts/117316446525984

Turiya Kathyayani
is with
Aparna Krishnan
.

It is sometimes stated that Samskritham is Braminical. One wonders what is meant by that.

      Let's take Ramayanam as an example. It is considered to be the Adhikavyam. Valmiki, the author, who is not a Brahmin but belonging to the hunter caste, is considered to be the Aadhikavi and is worshipped by every practicing Hindhu ( Vandhe Valmiki kokilam). The hero and the heroine of the epic are Kshatriyas. Hanuman, another hero, is a member of the monkey clan. Jatayu is a vulture.
   The only Brahmana is Ravana, who is the villain in the epic. There are two more Brahmanas spoken about in the Ramayanam - Vashishta and Vishwamithra. I don't think they oppressed anybody. 
    Similarly Mahabharata is also not Braminical. Bhagavat Gita is a sermon given by a Kshatriya to another Kshatriya.

So can someone explain why the term 'Braminical' is used, by taking it from the word Brahmin to imply oppression? In which epic of ours has a Brahmin ever oppressed others?

Radhika Rammohan, Kriti Bhardwaj and 20 others

188 Comments

3 Shares

Krishna Kanth
Narratives of the Anti India forces!
- Like
- Reply
- 52w
Komakkambedu Himakiran
There are Puranas and there are Smritis. Your answers will be found in the Smritis.
1
- Like
- Reply
- 52w
Hide 45 Replies
- Aparna Krishnan
  Komakkambedu Himakiran
  1. Smritis change with times. Only Shrutis are valid across time.
  2. I can give you quotes from the Smritis that say Brahmins are superior, and also those that say that attitude defines the Brahmin, and also those that say the chandala who is learned should be bowed to.
  3. I will go with reality. The average Brahmin was poor. His mandate was austerity and to use his learnings for society. How many, in any age, do you think aspired to poverty ? Or to join vada pathashalas ?
  4. This 'hate the oppressive brahmin' which is the card the Dravidian movement plays, I am afraid is invalid and false. It has paid political dividends, yez.
  5. The modern say IT engineer Brahmin, has given up both tenets of poverty and giving hid learning freely to society. I hold no brief for them.
  Like
  Reply
  52w
- Komakkambedu Himakiran
  The angst against Brahminism is a product of historical and current issues. When you say the average Brahmin was poor, I can give you innumerable examples of land owning Brahmins in the past and present. You can say ones who have moved away from their Dharmam aren't Brahmins, etc. all that is great for rhetoric, but reality is, the superiority attitude emerges from these historical socioeconomic constructs.
  Smritis change with time. Have all the people who adhered to them also changed with time?
  btw Brahminism is not only restricted to Brahmins. It is found in everyone who discriminates on the basis of birth.
  Oppression is not seen physically but in the form of policies. Who is supporting NEET? Who is against reservations? Why so?
  1
  Like
  Reply
  52w
- Komakkambedu Himakiran
  These questions need to be asked internally and externally. Who is batting for Hindu rashtra? What exactly is Hindu rashtra? What will be the status of the different castes in it? and women?
  Like
  Reply
  52w
  Edited
- Aparna Krishnan
  1. Do you think there was great aspiration among the public to learn Sanskrit/ join the Veda pathshala / become a temple priest ?
  All this thing about the public being denied access to Sanskrit needs to be relooked at based on their aspirations !
  2. To analyse the Hindu Rashtra, it's contours, needs a seperate post. We will do that seperately.
  3. Brahminism to indicate oppression was derived from the word Brahmin. Astute political play !
  4. The modern day English educated brahmins definitely need to be called out on many fronts. Including yours truly. With you there.
  Like
  Reply
  52w
- Komakkambedu Himakiran
  Forget aspiration, it was out of reach. Temple entry was not allowed for a majority till the last century. When it was allowed, vast majority enjoyed that right. Now saying they didn't aspire to enter temples is being naive. What is denied because of birth, is never questioned until social reform happens.
  It is off course political play. What's not political about it? Everything is politics and has always been. When the system was created with power of the state backing it, social and political reform was needed.
  Like
  Reply
  52w
- Komakkambedu Himakiran
  I have never supported or used abusive language against any community or person. I have always called it out even if the perpetrator has been on the same side as me ideologically.
  But when I question the others, I am immediately branded as anti Hindu anti Brahmin! So who decides who is allowed question these things?
  Like
  Reply
  52w
- Aparna Krishnan
  Komakkambedu Himakiran
  1. Yes, your own approach and language us temperate. I have never called you anti Brahmin. My comment is on the Dravidian movement politics. And if you are part of it, you need to answer for it too.
  2.Temple entry, a community being denied that are cosmic wrongs. That the entire Hindu community needs to answer for. But that is not the point here.
  Here the point is the accusation that brahmins held Sanskrit close to them. And denied it all traditionally. Who wanted it is also something that needs to be seen !!
  Now it is made available to all. Turiya can explain more on that. I don't see people queing up for it, sorry. It's just a hollow stick to beat with.
  Like
  Reply
  52w
- Komakkambedu Himakiran
  When people were denied entry to the streets the temples, them wanting to learn Sanskrit is out of the question. But the knowledge that was documented belonged to the same people. So what was the point of documenting that knowledge? It's intellectual property that was taken but not given back.
  Like
  Reply
  52w
- Aparna Krishnan
  Komakkambedu Himakiran
  I don't know whether in the past all jatis lined up before Veda pathshala s asking to learn Sanskrit, and were shooed away.
  Today when many groups like Samskrita Bharati are making it available to all, high quality learnings, I see no stampede of learners.
  I suggest we all drop rhetoric, and get on to ground realities. And working together where we can.
  Sanskrit learnings are available now to all. High quality, at no cost. What would you like to do now with this ...
  Like
  Reply
  52w
- Komakkambedu Himakiran
  They were not allowed into the village streets, forget agraharams and temples. There were communities the mere sight of who meant a great sin.
  What is the point now? What is the utility? Can you name the professions which require Sanskrit knowledge? We have people who learnt Sanskrit, Agamas, Tamil rituals and had to fight it out in the courts for decades to be allowed to become priests. When the govt made it a law in 1972, it was overturned by the courts and it took 34 years for the govt to bring the law again followed by years of court battles.
  Who went to court against them? Who considers it their fiefdom?
  2
  Like
  Reply
  52w
- Komakkambedu Himakiran
  Just like how NEET sends a message across saying only the rich who can afford coaching classes can dream of becoming doctors, the resistance to such moves by the govt sends the message across saying we won't be allowed to practise it as a profession.
  Like
  Reply
  52w
- Aparna Krishnan
  Komakkambedu Himakiran
  so now that Sanskrit is available, the Sanskrit you said the Brahmins did not permit to others. You find it useless as a language.
  I'm done here.
  Like
  Reply
  52w
- Komakkambedu Himakiran
  I didn't say useless. I asked you about where it is used. If you want to turn an objective question into an opinion, I can't help it.
  Like
  Reply
  52w
- Aparna Krishnan
  Figure out.
  Sanskrit, which you accused the Brahmins for denying to all, is available on a platter.
  If you have no idea if it's useful or useless, why such a song and dance about it.
  Like
  Reply
  52w
  Edited
- Aparna Krishnan
  All political games Hima. Not my circus
  Like
  Reply
  52w
- Komakkambedu Himakiran
  Sure, you can call it politics but your replies are the same too.
  I gave you an example of how territorial people get and oppose.
  Like
  Reply
  52w
- Aparna Krishnan
  I have no problem with politics, but best to put rhetoric away and work on details.
  Now Sanskrit is available, and please tell all those who were aspiring to learn it, and thought they were denied it
  Waiting to see them a line up !!
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Komakkambedu Himakiran
  Haha...you have conveniently ignored my stated example of the priests. They learnt yet they were opposed. Who has time for court battles? The govt machinery had to back them to get a decision. With such resistance, it's quite naive to pretend the carpets have been rolled out for everyone.
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Komakkambedu Himakiran
  You saying it's available is rhetoric and using that to taunt the ones who point out historical denial is political. Please don't pretend otherwise.
  Like
  Reply
  51w
  Edited
- Aparna Krishnan
  Komakkambedu Himakiran
  I am denying nothing. The untouchability cannot be denied, temple (non) entry cannot be denied , among many other historical crimes based on caste, religion and other factors as well.
  I am only sticking to one point on this thread. And we can debate the other points is other threads. Otherwise what we have is just a lot of random comments.
  Your contention, the contention of the Dravidian movement, was that brahmins locked away Sanskrit which all people aspired to learn. Well, I don't know that everyone was quite queing up to learn in the past. Now I can give you many addresses where highest quality teaching goes on free for one and all, and has been for a long time. Please give those addresses to all those who you say we're denied the opportunity. Let us see.
  You claim that traditionally Brahmins oppressed. I said traditionally they were poor. You said that many had land holdings. Then by that token the biggest land holding communities should be considered the biggest oppressors !
  My submission is that the Dravidian movement, as some others, has structured hate into its agenda. And in this case it dies not gave as much logic as political expediency
  Anyway please bring all those who were wanting to learn Sanskrit and were prevented.
  We will take it from there.
  Otherwise I stop here
  2
  Like
  Reply
  51w
  Edited
- Komakkambedu Himakiran
  Who denied landed communities weren't oppressors? Off course they were and some still are. The Dravidian movement arose from the reformists amongst them and has brought it to this point where every community has been able to break the shackles and get educated and empowered. Still a long way to go. I didn't claim traditionally Brahmins oppressed. They along with the upper castes created a system which was designed to oppress the majority. You said they were poor. I pointed out that it is not the case across the board.
  For how long will you ignore the temple priest issue that I have clearly explained? You are merely what you have to say, blissfully ignoring a specific issue that fits into your question of who wants to read it now? Address this issue if you are really seeking answers. Otherwise it is just the same as bashing Dravidian movement just like Dravidian movement indulged in Brahmin bashing.
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Aparna Krishnan
  Temple priest issue I did not respond to because I do not know technically enough about it.
  I know Veda pathshala s exist where learning goes on. I don't know the content of the teaching. I don't know what short term course the aspirants went. And if the learning was in-depth to attend to a traditional archkas duties.
  The community of believers, of all jatis, need to sit and work it out. The extent and details of training. I personally don't consider the court competent to judge on matters of faith.
  I am.also not competent.
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Komakkambedu Himakiran
  If you cannot understand it, then you will not understand the issue. It is related to the question you raise.
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Aparna Krishnan
  Everything is related, yes.
  But 1. Sanskrit is available for all those who were seeking it, and has been for a long time. 2. And the Dravidian movement treating Brahmins as the biggest oppressors is rather pathetic.
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Aparna Krishnan
  Yes, it's the larger socio political reality that needs to be addressed. NEET, a system of priestly learning that can equip all communities to take up priesthood if they choose, and many more.
  To make the traditionalBrahmin the villian and to say that Sanskrit was the aspirational language that he denied is not accurate, and merely political expediency. That is my main difference.
  The larger vision, problems, and requirements, I am with you.
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Komakkambedu Himakiran
  You refuse to accept it. No one is making anyone a villain. People and communities are getting called out. If the reaction is self introspection it'd do a lot of good to society.
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Aparna Krishnan
  Komakkambedu Himakiran
  Doesn't the Dravidian movement demonize the Brahmin ? Come on !
  Of course honest internal discussions are critically needed everywhere.
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Komakkambedu Himakiran
  Off course. It did and some of them still do.
  But, when you classified majority as Shudras and Panchamas for centuries, what reaction do you expect?
  I don't support that. I gave you a specific example of the temple priests issue which answers your question and yet you dismissed me as being political!
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Aparna Krishnan
  Komakkambedu Himakiran
  I did not dismiss the temple question ad political expediency.
  It was as the other points, please re read.
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Komakkambedu Himakiran
  If you tried to spend some time to understand it, you would get the answers to the questions you raised.
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Krishna Kanth
  Kalidasa was not a Brahmin. He is a great Sanskrit scholar. Did he also oppressed people from his birth jati?
  2
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Komakkambedu Himakiran
  Was he a Shudra or a Panchama?
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Krishna Kanth
  Komakkambedu Himakiran
  he was a shudra.
  1
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Aparna Krishnan
  Komakkambedu Himakiran
  when it suits you, you put Shudras and Avarna in one category, and when it suits you seperately ?
  "But, when you classified majority as Shudras and Panchamas for centuries, what reaction do you expect? "
  1
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Komakkambedu Himakiran
  Assuming he was a Shudra, can you also tell me if his entire community was allowed to learn Sanskrit?
  Also can you tell me why Ram killed Shambuka?
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Aparna Krishnan
  Komakkambedu Himakiran
  and also Ravana, a Brahmin !
  1
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Komakkambedu Himakiran
  Answer my question. Don't divert. Why did Ram kill Shambuka?
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Krishna Kanth
  knowledge in the hands of crooks is dangerous to society. Gurukula ensures right knowledge for right people. In the past years, there were many who were knowledgeable of Sanskrit. Aptitude and attitude were key. The middle age distortion’s being attributed to the whole of the past is a lopsided approach. Of course that suits many’s political aspirations today.
  2
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Krishna Kanth
  Shambuka is a controversy as some claim that it’s a later day addition. Assuming it is part of Valmiki Ramayana, the Raja dharma based on aligibility has its punishments in those days. Judging them with today’s lenses may not always be a right approach.
  2
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Krishna Kanth
  Afzal gurus hanging is also being questioned these days, so understanding Raja dharma of yesteryears is a far cry!
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Aparna Krishnan
  Hima, is it possible to stick to the point of the post ?
  1. It is sometimes stated that Samskritham is Braminical. One wonders what is meant by that.
  2. So can someone explain why the term 'Braminical' is used, by taking it from the word Brahmin to imply oppression? In which epic of ours has a Brahmin ever oppressed others?
  Ramas omissions and commissions has no bearing on this.
  1
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Komakkambedu Himakiran
  haha....so no one has a straight answer to my question.
  Ram's omissions and commissions were sanctioned by what system? Who gave the sanctity to it?
  Can you list down the punishments mentioned in the Smritis? None of you give a direct answer to any specific question of mine.
  1
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Aparna Krishnan
  I suggest you first do that for the questions in the post. Instead of diverting it to where a Kshatriya kills Shambuka. And meander into other discussions.
  Diverting is a strategy, yes.
  Like
  Reply
  51w
  Edited
- Komakkambedu Himakiran
  Seriously I've given you an example of the temple issue yet you deny to even read about it.
  Please stop talking about diverting.
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Aparna Krishnan
  fyi
  (via Sunny Narang)
  1 March 2016 at 19:03 ·
  It is very fashionable to scream "Upper-Caste" and "Brahminical" as if they are a monolithic identity and regressive and enemy of the other castes.
  From 1857 onwards , it was Brahmins who led from the front , whether as Socialists or Arya Samajis , as did many other upper-castes . Jats , Khatris , Rajputs , Pathans , Marathas , all were involved .
  British did "Divide and Rule " , Indian intellectuals, activists , politicians do "Divide and Destroy"
  Like
  Reply
  51w
Write a reply…
Aparna Krishnan
via Paranthaman Sriramulu
Paranthaman Sriramulu They dont know history or our epics. Brahmin lived on alms. They cooked their own food. They did not accumulate wealth or be in power. Brahmana varna jati being knowledge holders had follow this rule. Now. we see what happens when knowledge holders sell knowledge (patent, trademark, copyright). And when they are in power or accumulate wealth. Deadly combinations and result. They control world..
4
- Like
- Reply
- 51w
Aparna Krishnan
(via Sunny Narang)
1 March 2016 at 19:03 ·
It is very fashionable to scream "Upper-Caste" and "Brahminical" as if they are a monolithic identity and regressive and enemy of the other castes.
From 1857 onwards , it was Brahmins who led from the front , whether as Socialists or Arya Samajis , as did many other upper-castes . Jats , Khatris , Rajputs , Pathans , Marathas , all were involved .
British did "Divide and Rule " , Indian intellectuals, activists , politicians do "Divide and Destroy"
1
- Like
- Reply
- 51w
- Komakkambedu Himakiran
  Aparna Krishnan
  The entire RSS and it's leadership has been of Brahmins except for one Thakur. Hindutva and it's gory dance now was their creation. These things need to be talked about too.
  Like
  Reply
  51w
Write a reply…
Radhika Rammohan
Komakkambedu Himakiran
wrote "btw Brahminism is not only restricted to Brahmins. It is found in everyone who discriminates on the basis of birth. " This is the crux of a problem -- that the "ism" here is of discriminating based on birth which is done across castes by most in India. Social or economic privilege is *not* exclusive to brahmins. Yet the "ism" as used here, has the prefix "brahmin" which is based on birth, which itself is discriminatory. Almost all great, "sanskritized" Hindu gurus through time have strived to elevate the oppressed classes from Sankara, Ramanuja, to modern day sages like Vivekananda and Chinmayananda. They have managed to influence the brahmins more than those landed non-brahmin castes who are committing atrocities including murder of Dalits to this day in the countryside. This is after 50 years of Dravidian rule and scapegoating brahmins for all the ills of society! Doesn't it prove that anti-brahminism was a political expediency which did little to eliminate oppression of Dalits.
3
- Like
- Reply
- 51w
Hide 17 Replies
- Komakkambedu Himakiran
  Radhika Rammohan
  Basavanna was killed by who? Ramanujar wasn't accepted for his social reform without opposition. Who came up with the Smritis? It's quite convenient to deny these things and simply say scapegoating. Please read about the temple entry issue. Who was opposed to it?
  Shall we list down the physical atrocities perpetrated by Brahmins in the North?
  Please see the socioeconomic conditions of all castes before and after. The average Dalit here is doing better than the average FC in Gujarat and Chattisgarh. Are we going to deny that?
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Radhika Rammohan
  Himakiran
  Why would I claim that no oppression or discrimination was ever committed by brahmins. Of course they committed them and many continue. Many OTHERs did so and continue to as well. Everyone of privilege oppressed everyone who did not have it. If you are saying that brahmins have to be blamed as the original "inventors" of discrimination as they "wrote the book" (be it Smritis or Srutis) we would have to take the task of knowing those books in their *entirety* and why are we only cherry picking the oppressive lines and saying that's all their value? actually I should say "so called oppressive lines" because a lot of these writings should not be interpreted literally and problems come because they were interpreted literally. Similarly there are SO many "brahminical" practices, be it recitation of vedas, or keeping certain religious and spiritual practices, which are GOOD -- which bring about peace and harmony to the world at large without harming anyone. There are many brahmins who are happy to share their knowledge of these same practices, with anyone who comes and asks. In fact the towering Hindu gurus and leaders of the 20th century Swami Vivekananda and Chinmayananda hailed from non-brahmin castes. Vedic knowledge was hardly withheld from them, which is why they were able to reform, propagate and make it relevant. Their gurus were brahmins and happily taught them right? Why are these practices not considered "brahminism" and only the negatives are ?
  1
  Like
  Reply
  51w
  Edited
- Komakkambedu Himakiran
  Oh cmon now. You are holding onto to th Varnam identity and not caste identity, Brahmin is a Varnam not caste. Vedic religion is not something great. It was propagated by the way of the sword rather than inclusiveness.
  Please answer these three questions.
  1) What ideology killed Basavanna? Who killed him?
  2) What crime was Shambuka accused of, for which Rama killed him?
  3) Is Brahmin a caste or a Varnam as described in the Varnashramam? Why is it that people are still holding to that Varnam identity? is it because they still believe in Varnashramam and its inherent birth based segregation and discrimination?
  Like
  Reply
  51w
  Edited
- Radhika Rammohan
  There are no questions Hima. These are opinions. You don't like the vedic religion because you have thrown the baby out with the bath water. As for the sword versus inclusiveness, the vedic religion is the LAST one that has to answer for that!! I am a very small fry to be defending it and have no need to take such bait.
  1
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Komakkambedu Himakiran
  I asked simple straight questions. Please don't feign ignorance. From Buddha to Basavanna to Ramanujar they all fought against this Vedic religion crap only. It was the sub alterns who followed them. The Vedic religion practitioners of those times were against all these reformers.
  Not a single one of you gives me a straight answer. \
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Aparna Krishnan
  Hima, please dont hide behind jargon.
  The Dravidian movement hatred for brahmins is well known. Let us stick to that meaning of the word brahmin. The jati.
  You have said that that jati is the most oppressive, and deserves to be used as the basis of a word indicating oppressiveness.
  You and the Dravidian movement are welcome to your politics of hate. If you re-read the thread you will find much to consider if you had the courage, honesty and openness to. But I suppose ideological and political loyalty come ahead of truth.
  Like
  Reply
  51w
  Edited
- Komakkambedu Himakiran
  Aparna
  , I answered your questions straight. I am still awaiting your answers to my questions. If you really want to be rational, answer my direct questions with direct answers first. Quid pro quo!
  Otherwise you are simply acting like the Hindutva types you will rant about everyone else but when questioned, will not reply directly but label!
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Aparna Krishnan
  This post was about a certian point. That you have asnwered after 2 days of beating around the bush. Anyway, thank you.
  Shambuka, Draupadi vastraharanam, Seeta being banished, Vasishta-Vishwamitra fueds etc we can address in another post.
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Komakkambedu Himakiran
  hello.. do you have selective amnesia? I answered this 2 days ago. You are the one who has not answered a single question of mine for 2 days.
  Forget another post. Answer me here.
  1
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Komakkambedu Himakiran
  Keep at it and allow Hindutva to destroy the so called Hinduism you keep talking about.
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Radhika Rammohan
  Hima I am not answering on 1 and 2 because (1) I have no doubt some atrocities were committed by Brahmins which I have repeatedly admitted (2) am ignorant on them and have to learn about them, but these events don't change my main argument which is that such use of the "ism" is neither justified nor useful.
  The third question as to birth based segregation I didn't even expect you to ask me if I believe in it! I don't think anyone in this discussion has ever.supoorted it or defended it. My opinion of the Vedic religion is clearly different from yours and I don't have a need to change your opinion! There is plenty of beauty in the VR from which I benefit every day , I have every intention of improving my knowledge and willing to call spade a spade. In any case I thought we were talking about (1) sanskrit was not kept from non-brahmins -- original point brought by Turiya (2) use of the word brahminism as a pejorative.
  I don't want to spend my time defending the entire history of Hinduism so will stop here
  2
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Aparna Krishnan
  Komakkambedu Himakiran
  your ideological hatred of the Vedas, which incidentally includes the Ayurveda, will cost the country heavily. The wealth of knowledge that is exists in Sanskrit is phenomenal, and there is much to draw.
  I suggest you consider if indiscriminate loyalty to every point of DMK ideology is larger than loyalty to truth and to the larger good.
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Komakkambedu Himakiran
  Radhika Rammohan
  I didn't say you believe in it.
  You see Brahminism differently. We see it is an expression of Varnam. Are we going to defend Varnashramam now?
  Let's talk about exclusion. What reform did Ramanujar do? Why was there a need for that reform?
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Komakkambedu Himakiran
  Aparna Krishnan
  oh stop it. You haven't answered a single of my question. All you want to do is pass judgment. Get down from this moral pedestal first. The question here is who denied and what was denied? If you want to pretend every Brahmin in history was a poor Brahmin living on offerings from the people, then you are simply denying the very work done by Buddha, Basavanna, Ramanujar and so many more.
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Aparna Krishnan
  Komakkambedu Himakiran
  Thats a new label now, moral pedestal. In a debate when the other party starts throwing jargon around is an indication that it's time to stop wasting time.
  Please reread the points made. Nowhere is it claimed that any community in privilege had never exploited. But according to your ideology Brahmin were the biggest oppressors. That is a lie.
  Good luck with the hate game.
  Done here.
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Komakkambedu Himakiran
  see....you don't engage on a equal footing at all. All you want is to pass judgment!
  I answered your question directly. You have not done that for 3 days now, 3 days.....
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Aparna Krishnan
  Komakkambedu Himakiran
  
  Like
  Reply
  51w
Write a reply…
Aparna Krishnan
Komakkambedu Himakiran
the pillar of the Dravidian movement had been whipping up hatred against Brahmins. Presenting them as the greatest of oppressors.
Pulling in random points to defend that. I can pull out more number of points to counter that. But I refuse to engage in processes that are based on ten categories of hate.
I would advise you to ponder on these points however.
Who was in political power pre British ?
Who were the Kings the nobility , who practised power . Which castes .
Were Brahmin big landlords , if yes what percentage .
Land or Military gave power earlier .
Ritual power is only via the King. So if in pre British times other castes ruled had majority landholding they gave Brahmin ritual power . Almost nowhere in India Brahmins were ruling castes pre British.
2
- Like
- Reply
- 51w
Komakkambedu Himakiran
We have heard these arguments so many times. Were Brahmins ruling when people were denied entry to temples in the 20th century? Royal edicts are sanctioned by the religious powers vested with the priestly communities.
Religious power is supreme.
So this post facto blame the rulers not the priests is quite ironical. Kings come and go but these religious edicts surpass time. As much as you want introspection to be done by people who support the Dravidian movement, you need to hold up the mirrors too.
I asked about Basavanna. No reply.
I asked about Shambuka. No reply.
I asked about temple priests who learnt the Agamas yet were denied their place. No reply.
I asked about the Smritis. No reply.
- Like
- Reply
- 51w
- Uma Shankari
  I would request both Komakkambedu Himakiran and Aparna Krishnan to calm down and stop whipping up antagonistic feelings against each other. In the pre-british period, from the time of Pallavas, brahmins were brought brought from the north and settled in villages in large scale, giving them land grants, village grants, and so on. The kings from the sudra caste colluded with the Brahmins to establish their hegemony. Many movements against their hegemony did come about , the bhakti movement of the Alvars, and Nayanmars, and so on, questioned both the brahminical authority as well as kingly authority, but by and large the hegemony continued till the British. The British brought about some changes both in land ownership, taxation and other areas...
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Aparna Krishnan
  Uma Shankari
  we a long time friends Uma . Will take more than this to create mutual antagonism !
  This is a 'discussion', where we will probably after to differ.
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Uma Shankari
  The anti-brahminism it seems to me has largely run out its course, but then I have been out of TN since 40 years, so I don't experience it, if any. I hope the anti-brahmanism is not as serious as it was during the peak days of Dravidian movement. The dravidian movement was simultaneously a Tamil pride movement, an assertion of Dravidian culture too, apart from being opposed to brahmins.
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Aparna Krishnan
  Uma Shankari
  true, the Dravidian movement made great strides socially. Yes that focussed hatred and negativity lowers it.
  But today most positions are defines on hatred of another. BJP for instance need not take on Muslim hatred for building Hindu prize. It could have done a lot in reinstating Ayurveda and many other great traditions of knowledge.
  It is all hate defined strategies in most places. Mores the pity.
  Like
  Reply
  51w
Write a reply…
Aparna Krishnan
Shambuka, yes, if it is an intrinsic part of Valmiki Ramayanam, and not a later addition as many scholars say, I consider it a wrong act. But there is no Brahmin involved here, btw.
The requirements of the learnings archaka needs, and whether the course addressed it, is a point beyond my understanding. So I will pass that question.
The Smritis change from Yuga to Yuga, and some points mentioned then are invalid for me now. Many of the points are timeless and of great wisdom.
I am done here. If you wish to build your politics on Brahmin hatred, and if it serves you politically, please go ahead.
- Like
- Reply
- 51w
Komakkambedu Himakiran
See you sweep things under the carpet and then say we are anti Brahmin. That is political expediency.
And see how you make it personal!
- Like
- Reply
- 51w
Aparna Krishnan
Sorry, wrong number. I have enough questions to ask of my community, and you can find the posts on my page.
At the same time mindless villianizing is any community as you and your parties do for political ends is also well deserving of being questioned.
I seek nothing of anyone, and need no power on anybody. So I am able to seek truth. That seems to be a losing cause these days.
Done here
- Like
- Reply
- 51w
- Edited
Hide 11 Replies
- Komakkambedu Himakiran
  I did? good if that's what you think.
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Aparna Krishnan
  Komakkambedu Himakiran
  yes the Dravidian movement, which you subscribe to, is based on that.
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Komakkambedu Himakiran
  You accused me. So that's good to know.
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Aparna Krishnan
  Komakkambedu Himakiran
  you are answerable for your party. Disassociate from their hatred drive, call it out. Or understand that you are also answerable for it.
  'You' and 'me' are irrelevant. These are positions.
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Komakkambedu Himakiran
  haha...I have always called it out. I am not answerable for it. It is a movement with results on the ground and doesn't discriminate against anyone. I am only bothered about that.
  By the same thread, Hinduism has done enough to the masses by keeping them out of the temples, the villages, denying access to resources, education. Are you or I answerable for that just because we practise the religion? I don't think so. I believe it is my duty to call these things out and make it a very inclusive religion with local traditions.
  Is the hatred against Brahmins warranted? I don't think so. Is there angst that causes the hatred? I do believe so. That is the difference I am laying out.
  As long as Brahmins and other upper castes keep denying the historical and current reasons for that angst, it would manifest as hatred.
  So we can keep harping on this forever while Hindutva destroys everything. Tamilnadu is one of the most religious states which dismissed Hindutva as the people are quite clear on what religion is for them. This is a result of the Dravidian movement questioning things.
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Komakkambedu Himakiran
  That's all I have to say on this.
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Aparna Krishnan
  Komakkambedu Himakiran
  yes, so long as we call out the wrongdoing on each front, Left, Right, Dalit, Dravidian. And work with the truth in each. There is hope of taking the next meaningful step.
  That is what counts now.
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Komakkambedu Himakiran
  Do you see why this hatred continues?
  From Jallikattu to NEET to hydrocarbon to koodankulam to Hindi imposition to states rights issues, inexplicably the people of Tamilnadu seem to face opposition from Brahmins mostly. There is opposition from other elites too but the most virulent and powerful opposition seems to come from certain people from this community. That feeds the hatred.
  While this happens more and more of them are reaching out across the aisle to understand things and stand with the people. I work with the second lot as a bridge with the Dravidian movement. And I oppose the first lot.
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Aparna Krishnan
  Komakkambedu Himakiran
  'certian people' of this community. 'And that feeds the hatred' !
  I can show you 'certian people' in every community who err.
  Ideologies based on hate is not my circus. Left, Right, Dravidian whatever. Happy to work on common concerns however.
  . Have a good working day.
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Komakkambedu Himakiran
  Those people are in the positions of power in the courts, the media, the institutions. That's why it matters a lot more. The story of Sebastian & Sons when told by TMK is heard, it would never be heard if told by Sebastian himself. That is the privilege of the community which TMK himself acknowledges.
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Aparna Krishnan
  Komakkambedu Himakiran
  yes, and therefore answerability and responsibility needs to be high. Agree.
  Like
  Reply
  51w
Write a reply…
Uma Shankari
Aparna, Aparna Krishnan, Turiya Kathyayani you have to read history to answer for yourself this question.. 3 percent of brahmins owned more land than all other castes,the non-brahmin movement in TN and other parts of the country did not come about from /for nothing.
1
- Like
- Reply
- 51w
Hide 17 Replies
- Aparna Krishnan
  I see. That is huge. Can you send me links/ data ?
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Uma Shankari
  not now, I am busy with other things. you can look up youself, and browse, you are more comp savvy than me. There are thousand books written on henon-brahmin movements in TN and other parts of India. MIDS in Adyar library is a good place to go to.
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Uma Shankari
  It is more complicated than a simple brahmin landlords vs. non-brahmin poor, there were other factors; cultural arrogance, competition between landowning non-brahmin castes and/against brahmin castes, the role of the British , etc. etc. Turiya Kathyayani People should not mix mythology and history, both are important disciplines in themselves- systematic study of myths and systematic reconstruction of history. Simlarly don't read history into myths and vice versa.
  2
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Uma Shankari
  I will stop now, I am occupied with other matters.
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Aparna Krishnan
  Looking for this data on 3% brahmins beig biggest land owners. Not getting it.
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Uma Shankari
  It is more complicated.
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Aparna Krishnan
  Please check the links for this. It may not be so.
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Turiya Kathyayani
  Uma Shankari
  even though this is a tangent and has nothing to do with my post..How do you define what is mythology and what is history? Because according to us, Ramayanam comes under 'Ithihasa' which means 'that which happened' ( ithi-ha-aasa).
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Mili Maria Thomas
  Aparna Krishnan
  don't need internet links for this.. look around Besant nagar or kalashetra colony and caste wise per capita ownership of prime land.. class previlages even today can't get u even a rented accommodation..
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Aparna Krishnan
  Mili Maria Thomas
  the point is different. If we stick to it we can establish it or refute it.
  Do 3% Brahmins own majority land in TN.
  Other points we can discuss in a seperate thread.
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Uma Shankari
  Aparna, pl. don't distort my replies. When the non-br. movement came up in the 20s and 30s the brahmins were 3% population but owned large tracts of land along with a few other non-br. upper castes as well. There were other factors also- I have sent you an essay on the growth of non-br. movement in different states of South India, the causes, the factors that promoted it and so on. I am not talking about present day. We don't have castewise land ownership data for present day, I think. The agricultural census does not provide caste wise data on land ownership except for SC and STs. Kindly read up and argue on the basis of data, not just impressions. Our impressions are sometimes right, but sometimes wrong, because our biases and prejudices colour them..
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Uma Shankari
  As for Turiya's question, whether itihasa is history, I will answer her in a separate mail. Kindly give me her email Id. Sure i will CC the mail to you too!
  1
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Aparna Krishnan
  Uma Shankari
  "3 percent of brahmins owned more land than all other castes". This is the detail I am requesting you to validate.
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Uma Shankari
  I don't have ready reply to this question Aparna, This is what I remember from my college days. But I don't think there is readymade data on land ownership and caste composition for that time , scholars have had to construct such data from various sources. I have already replied that there were other factors as well. Why don't you read what i sent to you?
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Uma Shankari
  The last census on the basis of caste was in 1931 census. One has to see if land ownership data was available in it or not.
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Aparna Krishnan
  Uma Shankari
  yes, I will read. I know there are many factors, and its a very complex issue.
  This particular detail I was wondering if it was validated.
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Komakkambedu Himakiran
  Everyone knows largest land owners in Mel Thanjai were Brahmins till land reforms were done in 1971.
  https://frontline.thehindu.com/cover.../article24704752.ece
  FRONTLINE.THEHINDU.COM
  Decline of landlordism
  Decline of landlordism
  Like
  Reply
  51w
Write a reply…
Aparna Krishnan
(via Sunny Narang)
For me it is very interesting to see how what are known as Kshatriyas becoming great Gurus and founders of new Sampradaya , also regarded as different Panths .
Vishvamitra is credited as the author of most of Mandala 3 of the Rigveda, including Gayatri Mantra.
He was a Chandravanshi Kshatriya .
Mahavir and Buddha were both from Kshatriya clans as were all the Sikh Gurus .
So in India we have had multiple parallel traditions since forever emerging from different Varnas or colours of being and temperament .
Nothing new about it. Or Radical. It just is.
Just like Valmiki. Ādi Kavi, writer of Ramayana.
As a former king, and one over as vast a realm as he had been, Vishvamitra was known to retain a regal and often haughty bearing. He was known for his temper and often cursed people in his anger, thereby depleting his yogic powers obtained by much penance. People feared his temper and prayed that their actions might not get misconstrued by the touchy sage.
However, as a former king, Vishvamitra also possessed great compassion for all beings. Having taken pity on Trishanku, he willingly exhausted all the punya he gained from his tapas, to enable him to ascend to the heavens. Following his attainment of the status of brahmarishi, he was known to use the power of his tapas to help anyone who was in need, whatever the cost to himself.
- Like
- Reply
- 51w
Aparna Krishnan
2
- Like
- Reply
- 51w
Aparna Krishnan
1
- Like
- Reply
- 51w
Aparna Krishnan
1
- Like
- Reply
- 51w
Aparna Krishnan
1
- Like
- Reply
- 51w
Aparna Krishnan
Fyi
Komakkambedu Himakiran
, above five comments.
- Like
- Reply
- 51w
Komakkambedu Himakiran
There was is no discrimination ever. Sure.
- Like
- Reply
- 51w
Aparna Krishnan
Where is that said ? Your sweeping statements on only Brahmins writing the Vedas, and on Sudras never getting entry is challenged.
- Like
- Reply
- 51w
- Komakkambedu Himakiran
  Aparna Krishnan
  show me where I mentioned Vedas? Please list down the punishments for Shudras, the treatment of Panchamas given in the various Smritis.
  Answer why Basavanna was killed?
  Why Shambuka was killed? You conveniently ignored the why and focused on the who.
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Aparna Krishnan
  Komakkambedu Himakiran
  sorry, this is just a game of scoring points. And not an attempt to see all perspectives to resolve issues and work on them. I will stop here.
  Like
  Reply
  51w
View 2 more replies
Radhika Rammohan
Himakiran
I think we may be addressing slightly different questions here. No caste or community group can claim to have never oppressed, never discriminated. And as brahmins had lot of social capital historically, they hold a considerable responsibility in this regard. Caste is entrenched in Indian society and for millenia. Caste groups were also artisan/ craft groups and for example, no weaver or potter would easily teach a non-weaver or non-potter their craft. No brahmin would easily teach a non-brahmin their craft. No kshatriya would either. And through history there have always been notable exceptions; many notable exceptions are illustrated in the Vedas themselves which presumably you all claim was the fountainhead of the Varna system, and thus blamed brahmins as the presumed authors. Till this day various people of various castes practice severe violent discrimination. Assigning this as "brahminism" is what I object to. Every Tom Dick and Harry does it, and in fact many brahmins, religious leaders, and others have worked against such oppression. Ramanuja was not unopposed, but his efforts prevailed. My objection is to using the word "brahminism" as a catch-all phrase for anybody discriminating by birth. That is a cheap and hate-promoting tactic which did NOT eradicate the discrimination by caste.
4
- Like
- Reply
- 51w
Hide 16 Replies
- Komakkambedu Himakiran
  Radhika Rammohan
  I have not mentioned the word Vedas in this entire thread. I asked about the Smritis. It was during the Gupta empire that this got created and entrenched. It was the Cholas who brought the Vedic religion into the South and it was the Vijayanagaram empire which entrenched it here.
  Brahmin refers to the Varnam and not caste. From Basavanna to Ramanujar to many more later, people born into those communities have reformed society. It was the people from other castes who accepted and celebrated them much before their own did.
  Why is it that people want to hold onto their Varnam identity of Brahmin and then complain it's a caste identity? As far as I know, there are about 60-70 castes who can be classified as Brahmin castes.
  The caste identity is Iyer, Iyengar, Gaud Saraswat, Chitpavan, Deshasht, etc.
  The Varnam identity is Brahmin.
  Introspection is needed here.
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Radhika Rammohan
  This is beyond my understanding !!
  1
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Aparna Krishnan
  Komakkambedu Himakiran
  I suggest you reply to Radhikas very clearly worded response. Instead of general commentary.
  And answer for the cheap and hate filled tactics that include the very coining of the word Brahminism.
  Like
  Reply
  51w
  Edited
- Komakkambedu Himakiran
  Aparna Krishnan
  Of all people, you shouldn't be suggesting that. You have ignored my specific questions several times in this thread.
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Komakkambedu Himakiran
  Radhika Rammohan
  You can try to understand.
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Aparna Krishnan
  Komakkambedu Himakiran
  whether I measure upto your standards of debate or not is beside the point.
  Radhika has questioned the use of the term Brahminical to denote all caste oppression, indicating that Brahmins are the worst oppressors. As has Turiya in the post.
  You need to defend it if you agree with it. Or disown the usage of this term as also in the Dravidian movement.
  I suggest you do it, instead of diverting to all other points, connected or unconnected.
  Like
  Reply
  51w
  Edited
- Komakkambedu Himakiran
  Aparna Krishnan
  is Brahmin a caste or a Varnam?
  You need to try and reply to one question atleast first. Instead of that you talk about standards of debate?
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Aparna Krishnan
  Komakkambedu Himakiran
  Everything except the point is answered. And further questions being presented in lieu of answers.
  Do you consider the term Brahminical, derived from the word Brahmin, to denote oppressiveness fair or not ?
  Yes or no.
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Komakkambedu Himakiran
  Brahminical is in usage for a while to denote that. I use Varnashramam myself. Brahminical and/or Brahminism is a reinforcement of Varnashramam.
  I answered this yday itself. Selective memory? Now I'll wait for specific answers from you for once.
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Aparna Krishnan
  Komakkambedu Himakiran
  Do you consider the term Brahminical, derived from the word Brahmin, to denote oppressiveness fair or not ?
  Yes or no.
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Komakkambedu Himakiran
  See above. What's this line of questioning? Answer one question of mine first.
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Aparna Krishnan
  Komakkambedu Himakiran
  yes or no.
  No essay type generalizations.
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Komakkambedu Himakiran
  You don't understand? I commented yday itself what I think Brahminism is. It represents oppression. A big yes.
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Komakkambedu Himakiran
  Now let's see you answer one of my questions.
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Aparna Krishnan
  Komakkambedu Himakiran
  "My objection is to using the word "brahminism" as a catch-all phrase for anybody discriminating by birth. That is a cheap and hate-promoting tactic."
  I am with Radhika there. Anyway it's clear that you feel the terminology is deserved and fair.
  Thanks for a clear answer. Clarity in positions helps.
  Like
  Reply
  51w
  Edited
- Komakkambedu Himakiran
  Is Brahmin a caste or a Varnam?
  What killed Shambuka? What was the crime he was accused of?
  Who killed Basavanna?
  Your turn.
  Like
  Reply
  51w
Write a reply…
Neha Srivastava
I can give you some pointers. Lets discuss!
1
- Like
- Reply
- 51w
- Turiya Kathyayani
  Neha Srivastava
  sure akka! Would love to hear from you!
  1
  Like
  Reply
  51w
Uma Shankari
https://www.isid.ac.in/~epu/acegd2019/papers/NitinBharti.pdf, https://www.networkideas.org/.../2016/10/Land_Ownership.pdf ,https://www.reuters.com/.../political-row-in-indian-state..., https://www.reuters.com/.../political-row-in-indian-state...
1
- Like
- Reply
- 51w
- Aparna Krishnan
  Uma Shankari
  there is a wealth of data here, tq, and will read through it.
  But there does not seem to be data on the share of land 3%TN Brahmins having owned, and if theirs was the largest holding.
  That detail may be incorrect.
  1
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Arindam Ghosh
  Aparna Krishnan
  I think the exact statistics is not so relevant. First I agree with you that the current use of the term to arouse hatred against another group is wrong. Anything that creates division or arouses hate is adharma.
  That said there is good historical basis for this anger against Brahmins. I will not delve into the history of Tamil nadu specifically which I claim no knowledge of. But will it make a big difference if 3% Brahmins owned 80% of land or 5% owned 60% ?
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Uma Shankari
  This discusses how political leadership helped TN. These leaders came from the non-brahmin movement. https://institute.global/advisory/inclusive-growth-tamil-nadu-role-political-leadership-and-governance?fbclid=IwAR0D9SMxoEYUY1mEnTbbrjC3RpFUBgREVOULFNF…
  See More
  INSTITUTE.GLOBAL
  Institute for Global Change
  Institute for Global Change
  1
  Like
  Reply
  51w
Write a reply…
Arindam Ghosh
Turia this is an excellent explanation of itihasa as opposed to history I think
https://qr.ae/pNtaLc
QUORA.COM
Rami Sivan's answer to If “Itihasa” in Sanskrit translates to 'It thus happened', then why are the Ramayana and the Mahabharata translated as mythology? - Quora
Rami Sivan's answer to If “Itihasa” in Sanskrit translates to 'It thus happened', then why are the Ramayana and the Mahabharata translated as mythology? - Quora
2
- Like
- Reply
- 51w
- Arindam Ghosh
  Please note that I do believe Krishna is a historic personality. I think the traditional dating of 3102 bc is wrong which is a separate discussion. But there is no real way to separate fact from fiction and it is not critical. Some of it may become clearer as science progresses more excavations are made etc.
  1
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Uma Shankari
  Rami Sivan 's essay is excellent. I for one do have a deep respect for mythology as well as history. I have dealt with both in my thesis on Hindu temple. I think a knowledge of history is as important as a knowledge of a society's myths, scriptures, etc. They do intersect often but we do have to keep each in its own place.
  1
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Arindam Ghosh
  How can I get your thesis ?
  Like
  Reply
  51w
Write a reply…
Komakkambedu Himakiran
This reminds me. The Ramayanam that we refer to. Is it Valmiki's or Tulsidas' or Kambar's or the few hundred others?
Please read 300 Ramayanas essay.
- Like
- Reply
- 51w
Krishna Kanth
A shudra like Kalidasa after becoming Brahmin by varna suddenly chose to oppress all his earlier Varna people
1
- Like
- Reply
- 51w
Krishna Kanth
Oh my goddess Matangi, goddess of inner knowledge, daughter of Sage Mantanga Rishi ( a Brahmin converted from a Chandala), please prevail on us
2
- Like
- Reply
- 51w
- Edited
Komakkambedu Himakiran
That's great. Why don't you try and make one of them head the Sankara Madam now!
- Like
- Reply
- 51w
Krishna Kanth
DharmO rakshati rakshitah! Sarve Jana sukhino bhavantu ! Shantih shantih shantih !
1
- Like
- Reply
- 51w
Hide 26 Replies
- Komakkambedu Himakiran
  blah blah blah and more blah...answer my straight question.
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Krishna Kanth
  I answered all your Blahs... you seem to be in a state of wakeful sleep..
  1
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Komakkambedu Himakiran
  no you didn't. This is not 5th century to blabber whatever you want and get away..
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Krishna Kanth
  I don’t answer as what you expect me to.. I answer what is right! I can’t help for someone who cannot understand some basics but fly high!
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Komakkambedu Himakiran
  haha...typical!
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Krishna Kanth
  have seen many such
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Komakkambedu Himakiran
  hahaha....so when are you going to ask the Sankara Madam to anoint a non Brahmin as head?
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Krishna Kanth
  the day the blind hatred of such like yours subside
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Aparna Krishnan
  Komakkambedu Himakiran
  any ideology with hatred as a foundation stone loses its grip with truth.
  Because the hate has to be kept alive for the ideologys very survival.
  1
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Komakkambedu Himakiran
  Hatred is not the foundation. That was a manifestation. The foundation is no discrimination on the basis of birth. That is why it has survived and thrived for 100 years now delivering results.
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Aparna Krishnan
  Komakkambedu Himakiran
  delivery is possible sans scapegoats and hatred. Maybe you and your party differ on this.
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Komakkambedu Himakiran
  You don't understand the historical constructs of those times. You seem to believe every Brahmin was poor and lived on offerings from people.
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Aparna Krishnan
  Komakkambedu Himakiran
  As Radhika said every privileged group has oppressed at one time or another.
  You want a scapegoat. And yes hatred serves political ends well. Mores the pity.
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Komakkambedu Himakiran
  Can you answer my questions first? I answered yours.
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Komakkambedu Himakiran
  Krishna Kanth
  We took millions who were kept outside into the temples. Now it is your turn. Call us what you want? But can you do what I asked you to do?
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Krishna Kanth
  Historicallu, Brahmins are the one who were suppressed, killed by tyrants that you seem to support!
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Krishna Kanth
  Komakkambedu Himakiran
  you just don’t seem to be literate of many paths that Sanatana dharma has.. mantra, tantra etc are available to every varna. There are many adepts at tantra those are not Brahmins. Infact many of them I respect are some foreigners too. E.g: Dr. Robert Svoboda ji. Vedic and Shankara Mayan’s are one path, there are many a paths are have custodians from other Varnas, Jatis. Swami Paripoornanda of Kakinanada Peetam, an SC earlier, is a revered guru I follow for Bhagawad Gita.
  Your request is as foolish as asking to replace someone from your family and tradition to replace as a family head
  2
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Krishna Kanth
  now that I have given enough things for your understanding, I stop as I see that I can only wake a sleeping person!
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Komakkambedu Himakiran
  It is a hard question to answer. I know.
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Krishna Kanth
  It’s hard for you to comprehend, and raise your awareness. I can understand and pity you
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Komakkambedu Himakiran
  yeah sure...make personal taunts. You already lost your argument there.
  call me whatever you want, if it satisfies your need for debasing people.
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Krishna Kanth
  Komakkambedu Himakiran
  oh yeah you are a saint, I can see
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Komakkambedu Himakiran
  Good job upholding the values of your religion.
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Krishna Kanth
  im not going to fall for these .. try harder
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Komakkambedu Himakiran
  you cannot fall further.
  Like
  Reply
  51w
- Krishna Kanth
  Like
  Reply
  51w
Write a reply…
Sridhar Lakshmanan
I just have one thing to say on this to
Turiya Kathyayani
if you really want to find answer to the above questions pls refrain from asking it in FB , this is a place of fun and entertainment. Meaningful dialogues cannot happen. Only time pass. If you are really interested talk to people visit places read on the literature on opposite side and then form your own opinion but don't post it on FB. These posts only create fault lines and deepen them. This is what I have learnt in last ten years of FB
7
- Like
- Reply
- 51w
- Edited
- Srinivasaraghavan Ramesh
  Sridhar Lakshmanan
  you're absolutely right
  Like
  Reply
  51w
Krishna Kanth
Funny that goal post keep shifting after the earlier ones nailed