Jallikattu, the Moral Policing

 

Joshy Jacob

Aparna what you meant by urban moral policing  

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  Aparna Krishnan

  The urbans telling the village people that their culture and their practices are immoral !

  

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• T.R. Shashwath

  She means that anything that rural people do is by definition moral and that nobody can ever question it. Conversely anything anyone in a city does is by definition wrong and all urban dwellers are evil.

  

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• Suraj Kumar

  T.R. Shashwath

   i don't think she makes such a simplified generalization... but even if we were to assume that to be true... it makes sense, doesn't it? Do you have any evidence against her statement? 

  

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  Aparna Krishnan

  I have said nothing like that Shashwat. I have said that we will take care of our moralities. And request the urbans to take care of theirs. Their errors are costing the earth far more than ours are anyway.

  

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• T.R. Shashwath

  I'm teasing... But you can come across like that.

  The point is, yes we (or at least I) understand. I still think that the custom as practiced today is barbaric. You hang on to it because of tradition, but tradition cannot trump logic and compassion. A mother may love her child, and on the basis of that intense love that nobody can question, insist that the child take up a profession she is completely unsuited for. I don't question her love but the way it's expressed may be pretty cruel.

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  Aparna Krishnan

  My point is that the village will decide what it wishes to do. It has the wisdom and the sensitivity to. That is my only point. Not even jallikattu or animal sacrifices. I might take a very different position in my village meetings if i wish to. But that is the only valid forum for village decisions.

  

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• T.R. Shashwath

  We've decided to live in a society with certain common laws. The village, or even a single state, or for that matter the city, can't contravene that. Certain principles are universal. At least with respect to his world. Your village needs to fit into the whole. Freedom isn't limitless.

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  Komakkambedu Himakiran

  When prices of commodities go up outside India, export of agricultural produce is banned. When prices go up in India, imports are opened up.

  Common laws?

  3 lac farmers have committed suicide in the last 20 years. Hell, one even hung himself on live TV when the PM was speaking in Delhi.

  Our land, water already grabbed. 50 million people displaced internally due to big dams. Millions forced to migrate under distress and toil as unskilled construction labor in the cities.

  Where did the compassion and morality go?

  This country is built for the upper caste English educated male, preferably North Indian. Rest progressively are lower, much much lower.

  

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• T.R. Shashwath

  "Where did the compassion and morality go?"

  Into making this judgement... In fact, it's part of the judgement itself - there is actually a section labeled "Compassion", which quotes Article 51: It shall be the duty of every citizen of India (g) to protect and improve the natural environment including forests, lakes, rivers and wild life, and to have compassion for living creatures;

  This compassion would include *not* scaring them out of their wits, making them run for fear of their lives, and then jumping on their backs...

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  Komakkambedu Himakiran

  The same court system let Salman Khan go.

  Don't hide behind the laws and the legal system which talks to the people in English.

  

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• T.R. Shashwath

  English, now...

  Answer the basic question. Why does a bull run?

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  Komakkambedu Himakiran

  It runs because it can.

  

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  Aparna Krishnan

  

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  Shashi Enarth

  The very paradigm around which of urban and rural communities are built is stacked heavily against the villages and village-based livelihoods. one has to be a grand ignoramus to not see that. Having said that, I still don't see the point in railing against everything that is urban and raving about everything that is rural. Instead, along with criticism, offer ideas and creative arguments that help us mitigate the effects of the lopsided wealth and power that we see between the two worlds. Or at least help villages cope better against the odds. Simplistic caricature of urban and rural people certainly doesn't add any wisdom beyond a point. Come on Aparna, most of us want to hear that the villagers deserve better and can get better. How? by cursing away the urban world!

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• T.R. Shashwath

  I suggest that it runs because it fears for its life. I confirm this from every single jallikattu video I've seen - there's fear in the poor animal's eyes, and from everything I've ever known about animal behaviour. Animals run in that manner to escape perceived danger.

  It's the inducement of fear - through beatings, poking and stabbing with sharp tools, biting and twisting of tails, maybe pouring of alcohol,... That's what was ruled against.

  It turns out that the organisers find it impossible to conduct jallikattu without doing that. So, the whole sport stands banned.

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  Aparna Krishnan

  The issue here Shashi is that we are fed up of being sermonised to by the all knowing urbans - about our morals, our culture, our very being. Let the urbans handle their (lack of) culture, and urban mess. There is as much and more sensitivity and morality in the villages to enable us to come to sane decisions. We need no moral police.

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  Komakkambedu Himakiran

  Videos? Why is it that your argument is an exact verbatim copy of what the activists say?

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  Komakkambedu Himakiran

  Simple question, how many Bulls were subjected to abuse and by how many people?

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• T.R. Shashwath

  Aparna Krishnan

   The issue here is that you have failed for nearly a decade to argue that the thing you want is legal. You've failed several times since then. After promising the court that you would ensure that it would be held in a humane manner. Right now, evidence before the court is that you are incapable of doing so.

  So, now you go on this massive rant about how the whole world is so unfair to your poor peaceful rural lifestyle. Which is bullshit, because it's really not. Sometimes you just need to listen to other people without becoming pigheaded about it.

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• T.R. Shashwath

  Komakkambedu Himakiran Anugula

   "Why is it that your argument is an exact verbatim copy of what the activists say?"

  Because that was the argument that the court accepted. If your three biggest venues can have this much abuse with this much oversight, how am I to believe that the rest are in any way better?

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  Komakkambedu Himakiran

  This whole video business is shady. PETA/AWBI is full of avowed vegan people who believe in animal liberation. Not my statement but theirs. Now AWBI monitoring an event that they've always wanted to ban, itself is conflict of interest.

  Now they are washing their hands off the consequences of the ban. What sort of animal welfare is this when they don't care about the Bulls being sold for a pittance and bought by Kerala beef traders?

  Don't hide behind the court system.

  

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  Komakkambedu Himakiran

  If you want to talk legal angle, why were Bulls added to a list of wild animals? Why elephants aren't there in that list?

  You seem to be parroting what they have cooked up. Anyways you are entitled to your opinions.

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• T.R. Shashwath

  How exactly do you fake somebody biting a bull's tail? Or poking it with sharp instruments?

  And if you wanted to make that argument, you should have done it in court sometime between 2013 and now. Why didn't you?

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  Komakkambedu Himakiran

  Unfortunately, people like us who understand the hidden agenda and how the legal system works got involved late. The case was already in final stages in the SC.

  To answer your first question, money?

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• T.R. Shashwath

  "What sort of animal welfare is this when they don't care about the Bulls being sold for a pittance and bought by Kerala beef traders? "

  What sort of compassionate, moral, upstanding, sensitive rural people would sell the bulls they have raised so lovingly for years to Kerala beef traders just because a sport was banned?

  Unless, that is, your argument is that they're *not* actually all that compassionate, moral, upstanding or sensitive, and are in it just for the money...

  Kind of strange how that argument works, isn't it?

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  Aparna Krishnan

  your unshakable faith in the judiciary is deeply touching. good night.

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• T.R. Shashwath

  "To answer your first question, money?"

  Money to do what?

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  Komakkambedu Himakiran

  If you had read my article, you would understand how cattle markets work. But you choose to use the same prepared text of the animal welfare militants!

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• T.R. Shashwath

  Militants now... Who, exactly, used violence here? The people documenting abuse, or the people performing abuse?

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  Komakkambedu Himakiran

  The people using media and probono lawyers to liberate animals.

  Violence is not just physical.

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• T.R. Shashwath

  In this case, the contrast is between very physical violence and a nonviolent movement seeking to stop that very physical violence. Thank you very much for playing...

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  Komakkambedu Himakiran

  Thank the generous souls overseas and the probobo lawyers.

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• T.R. Shashwath

  Pro bono lawyers against the AGs of both Tamil Nadu and India.

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  Komakkambedu Himakiran

  Do the math!

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• T.R. Shashwath

  What math?

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  Komakkambedu Himakiran

  Haha. Ask the animal welfare saints!

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• T.R. Shashwath

  So, now you've gone off into Chewbacca Defence territory...

  Again, you fail to understand the basic fact of life - you keep making tangential arguments that just *don't* make any difference to the issue at hand.

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  Komakkambedu Himakiran

  You keep parroting the AWBI gang. The reference points to your entire argument are the videos and your profound faith in the Indian judicial system.

  What's new?

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• T.R. Shashwath

  If you have counter-evidence, please post it. You had years and years and years to gather it. So, where is it?

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  Komakkambedu Himakiran

  Instead of accusing me of tangents, you need to read what I write. I did say people like us who can converse in English, understand he big picture got in too late. When you don't even read my comments here, my bad expecting you to read my article.

  You have your views, We have mine. Let's leave it at that.

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• T.R. Shashwath

  Still no evidence of your claims. Just more conspiracy theories and furtive fallacies.

  On and on and on and on it goes... My bad for expecting you to understand basic logic, I guess...

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• Rajiv Ramnath

  Nice looking bull! Belongs to the maadu squaadu <grins>

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  Aparna Krishnan

  In the face of totally opposing claims on an issue of a community their are alien to - one would expect outsiders to go on the ground and see for oneself the reality, discuss with the local people, as they have been earlier invited to. Or else to stick to what they know, their own clan,and clean up that mess - which will keep them busy for lifetimes. This mantle of civilizing the native that the coconuts (brown out, and white in) have taken on has rather exceeded limits.

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• T.R. Shashwath

  "one would expect outsiders to go on the ground and see for oneself the reality, discuss with the local people, as they have been earlier invited to."

  Special pleading. When reports have been filed several times, with no counter-reports ever really coming out, I think I can call an abusive practice what it is. If that hurts your feelings, so be it.

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• Velmurugan Balasubramanian

  Hi T.R.Shashwath, have u ever visited slaughter house or race horse training or dairymilk farm? Please share ur experience how they are treated there. I can send the links which u can compare with jallikattu.

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• Velmurugan Balasubramanian

  You know the farmers are poor and upbringing bulls need huge money ( range of 5 lakh per annum) excluding their labor work. Now, how they get money for bulls? If these bulls are extinct (already one of 6 is extinct), how you insiminate cows? Thirdly, d… 

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• Velmurugan Balasubramanian

  Now that jallikattu is banned and the cycle is being destroyed. You may have to go to zoo to show the kankeyam bull if ur kids asks how they will be in next decade.