Sunday 18 April 2021

Sunny Narang - Various Calender Systems, Various Lending Systems


Bold words. True words.
None of us can deny the fact that we do celebrate the "Christian New Year" as the default New Year , the Global calendar is the Christian Gregorian Calendar and all this has happened only due to Colonialism by European powers in the past 500 years and since almost all European powers were Christian , they embedded a Christian reality of time and date on the whole world.
Similarly with banking, finance and much of our so-called "Modern Constitutional Laws" .
This so-called "Universalism" was never religion neutral, within them are the Christian and their reform reactions , claimed as "Secular" , which is a farce .
So Muslims have always called out this farce , as they have civilizationally been in conflict with European Christianity for centuries.
Islamic Laws have their own history, as do Islamic banking and finance as well as personal laws and civil and criminal laws.
They have full right to explore and establish their own systems of law according to their faith and cosmic vision , their historical cultural and civilizational experience .
That the Hindus , Buddhists , Sikhs , Jains are not doing their own banking , financial , personal laws , or using their own cultural and religious experience is their choice , that they want to be on the Euro-Christian bandwagon.
There are hundreds , if not thousands of indigenous customary laws across the world , even in India .
It is better that so-called "Mainstream Euro-Christian" dominated peoples understand that , their belief system is just one of the multiple possible .
And that they see within and understand how they have each thrown their own cultures and religions into cold-storage while listening to the Euro-Christians .
And the fact is that most colonised Legal Systems are based on Roman or English Law .
It is time all of us took a leaf out of Sharia and understood that each of us earlier colonised societies need to deeply look at our hybrids of religious-customary-roman-common law and restructure them according to our present and future needs via dialogue .
Komakkambedu Himakiran, Prakash Thangavel and 15 others
45 Comments
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45 Comments

  • Sãk Shun
    So what exactly needs to be done ? Remove the current banking system and develop one from scratch or introduce a new community wise banking system ?
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    • Aparna Krishnan
      First face that what we thought as the only way, and the best way, may be neither.
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    • Sãk Shun
      But we both are people among countless others who have accepted that. So what to do next ??
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    • Aparna Krishnan
      The path has to be forged collectively. The process has begun. Local reclaimings of identities - across the globe.
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    • Aparna Krishnan
      Jallikattu is one.
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    • Sãk Shun
      Pardon me for my youth and inexperience but every institution has come into the world through a process. When local economies and systems used to exist they failed because of disparity in regional systems. If one does not have a basic standard code, there will be issues as well. If Bangalore does not have the same institutional and financial setups as your village it will be very difficult to trade between them. And if Bangalore cannot trade with a San Francisco for services, the people of Bangalore too won't survive ! That's what happened even in the good old ages, we have all resolved to adopt this system..I do apologise but unless there is an alternative solution proposed us talking about idealistic concepts and principles fails to be just conjecture !
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    • Aparna Krishnan
      local identities will be reclaimed in many ways, and then many unexpected possibilities will be thrown up. the possinilities will be organic. we do not need to frame them. i have no more specific answer. i am watching, thats all.
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    • Sãk Shun
      The local identity is important and must be persevered. If possibilities are organic then even the current system seems to organic hence there is no question of disparity. We are watching because we believe that it has been an inorganic growth led by the western concepts, which may very well be true. I still fail to see how this discussion is even relevant. The local just for the sake of local is an even worse trend. Respectfully I disagree that we must just watch, regionalism is a double edged sword which history demonstrated can be wielded to reaffirm the existing powers.
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    • Aparna Krishnan
      Before action, comes understanding. And dropping wrong understandings. That takes a little time and humility. Of course we keep acting on the ground on many fronts meantime. That is our suty.
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    • Sãk Shun
      Of course, like every process it takes time and humility and respect to the process. But that's what I want to know ! Behind all our posts on social media which propagate an idea construct what follows on the ground ? How does the writer of the post propose to act in whatever little way ?
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    • Sunny Narang
      Aparna
       just as the world can deal with different currencies as well as languages with exchanges in the middle , it can deal with multiple medicine systems as well as banking and financing systems . Does'nt the world buy Oil from Muslim countries ? If the so-called developed West can deal with islamic finance it can deal with multiple systems " The United Kingdom has five banks dedicated to Islamic finance, more than 20 banks offering Islamic products, and 25 law firms with Islamic finance units. There is $38 billion in sukuk—the Islamic equivalent of bonds—listed in London, primarily issued by businesses and banks based in the Middle East. And an issue of £200 million worth of sovereign sukuk in June 2014 was the first such offering outside the Islamic world.
      Since then, Hong Kong SAR, South Africa, and Luxembourg have issued sovereign sukuk."
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    • Sunny Narang
      Just as there are cooperative banks , PSU banks there can be banks with different value systems , like Green banks that only invest in sustainable businesses or jain banks that don't invest in leather or meat businesses , there are already funds like that . "Values" traditional or radical contemporary can each have their own institutions .
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    • Sunny Narang
      Without a global centralized systems , hawala or the underground cash transfer systems still flourishes globally , even NRI's based in san Francisco sell their parent's property in Delhi for cash and get it transferred to USA without any USA or Indian tax authorities knowing anything about it.
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    • Sunny Narang
      The world operates on multiple levels with multiple systems , and there are always values , cultural and religious involved and my point is if Islam want's its own rules , it will suffer the costs and benefits like any system of transactional issues with other systems.
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    • Sunny Narang
      Anyways there is nothing rational or scientific about the present global banking or USD based system either , its just based on paper , with Gold Standard being broken down . https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_standard
      Gold standard - Wikipedia
      EN.WIKIPEDIA.ORG
      Gold standard - Wikipedia
      Gold standard - Wikipedia
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    • Sunny Narang
      Having seed and grain banks at community level is also a kind of commodity banking . And they can lend and borrow in kgs rather than money .
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    • Sãk Shun
      I understand and what you share is completely valid but what do you propose as an alternative ? On what lines do you see the banking services delineated ?
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    • Rama Subramanian
      I d do think every community, particularly poor ones, have some form of bank or another. These are lead but different values than the current banking system. They are local and hence carry better judgement in their management of funds...i once spoke to an community elder if one such bank about loan defaulters, the community have loans for the poor farmers to go abroad for a few years as manual labourers to be repaid once they staggered earning. The loan covered the travel, travel papers, and employment expenses.."we will try and understand the reasons for the default, but, give another loan, so that the person can r repay both the loans, these days there are so many fraudsters as employment contractors, people sometime do get cheated", what if the person defaults again, i insisted, wanting to understand their conflict resolving ethos, "then we will waive off the loan, the poor chap must already be struggling so much, why harass them further?" Said the elder. This compassionate approach i don't see the regular banking system capable of, it can only happen alongside decentralised, localised, financial institution functioning.
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    • Aparna Krishnan
      Compassion cannot exist outside the local. Only some intellectualization that masquarades as compassion. The human heart engages with the local.
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    • Sunny Narang
      Saksham , Islamic Banking is one way for Muslims , my point simply is that there are other rules, like no interest on loans but sharing profit . Actually Start-Up funding is the same , no debt . I am not talking about banking alone, but a whole system of belief that has its own personal, civil and criminal laws too. Just like the Khasis of Meghalaya have their own customary traditions where the youngest daughter gets the management of all assets from the mother . I am just proposing that all have their own sense and nothing Universal can take its place ever .
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    • Sunny Narang
      There will be hundreds of local variations , who are we to decide for the world what they want to achieve in their locality ? "In yet another example of this kind in village Chandoli in UP’s Mahoba district (see the link below), the villagers have not only created a grain bank through door to door collection of grains over harvest months but have also offered need based terms for lending the grain to farmers. Against the rampant lending rate of at least one and a half times the grain borrowed through the moneylenders, the grain banks offer free grain to the poorest farmers without having to return the loan, a token ‘grain interest’ from those holding up to two acres and a little more from those owning between two and five acres of land. " http://www.im4change.org/.../grain-banks-guard-against...
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    • Sunny Narang
      Let there be a thousand flowerings as they say.
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    • Aparna Krishnan
      WTO put paid to that. And its now a difficult process to reclaim, with hands tied behind one's back.
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    • Sunny Narang
      The grain bank is no more than a dimly-lit house where some 500 kg of maize, the staple of tribal populations in these parts, is stored in three ceiling-high baskets. The stock is of “deposits” of 5 kg per year made by 60 families, on which they earn interest. “For every 20 kg of grain a family borrows, it has to return 23 kg—an annual interest rate of 15 per cent. It’s a blessing: not only does it make us self-reliant, families that contribute to it earn interest,” says Raily Seema, president of the grain bank. Loans of grain help out when market prices shoot up during shortages, not unusual in the summer months. […] A unique idea that has taken root over the last two years among the tribespeople here—the Rathwas, Dungras, Chaudharis, Bhils and Nayaks, across 1,200 villages in the Narmada, Baroda, Surat and the Panchmahals districts—is that of creating what they call green economic zones (GEZs) as bulwarks against special economic zones (SEZs). Rather than lose land to corporate giants, they want to reclaim it by focusing on reviving tribal culture and language, fighting migration, creating economic self-reliance. https://www.indiantribalheritage.org/?p=18049
      Reviving tribal culture and creating economic self-reliance through grain banks: 1,200 communities form “green economic zones” and encourage education under the guidance of Bhasha Trust – Gujarat | Tribal Cultural Heritage in India Foundation
      INDIANTRIBALHERITAGE.ORG
      Reviving tribal culture and creating economic self-reliance through grain banks: 1,200 communities form “green economic zones” and encourage education under the guidance of Bhasha Trust – Gujarat | Tribal Cultural Heritage in India Foundation
      Reviving tribal culture and creating economic self-reliance through grain banks: 1,200 communities form “green economic zones” and encourage education under the guidance of Bhasha Trust – Gujarat | Tribal Cultural Heritage in India Foundation
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    • Sunny Narang
      Aparna
       those who can do , will do, I have never believed in any centralized universal formulae . The more centralization one has , more manipulation in the system by fewer people . Few bankers in NYC and London run a global casino . This system has to be replaced sooner than later .
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    • Sunny Narang
      And RBI is government owned like many national banks , but many are not like the Fed and the Bank of England.
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    • Sãk Shun
      All right first thanks for sharing these models too and no one disagrees on these models ! The point is when someone mentions to take a leaf out of Sharia law or any other law or community and redesign our whole systems. The shift from the national to local ? There has to be some uniform banking or financial or transduction system in place. It's just very well to say that we have this we have that. If the conventional banks can't adfresss the farmer debt can these smaller entities or community banks can ? Under what you are proposing can that entity enable to solve the real problems ? I suggest if we want to discuss, discuss the structure of that entity, and not repeat already models of present institutions.. a Hindu bank ? An Indian Islamic bank ? A Parsi bank ? A konkon bank ?
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    • Sunny Narang
      Just like the Education system . There are Hindu, Muslim , Sikh, Christian schools . The Community runs them. You can marry within your religion laws or Special Marriage Act . You can chose Ayurveda or Allopathy or Homeopathy . You can have different systems and a consensus on what will be a national system , just as we agree on various treaties .
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    • Sãk Shun
      Pardon me but the point being ? How is that relevant to the idea you present !
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    • Sunny Narang
      Well my "idea" was about every community having its right to decide its own rules you are reading only finance and banking.
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    • Sãk Shun
      I read it in its entirety, but i guess the discussion has carried on for long without any constructive practical outcome it would seem... but thanks for sharing
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    • Aparna Krishnan
      the outcome is not centralized, or for you or sunny to 'plan and implement'.
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    • Aparna Krishnan
      the outcome is the understanding that every local reality will find its own truth. And should be allowed to.
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    • Aparna Krishnan
      The educated are irrelevent, and their plans worth little. the sooner they realize that the better.
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    • Aparna Krishnan
      unfortunately their damage potential in our country is not so little, and therefore the need to share understandings.
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    • Sunny Narang
      Phra Subin’s Buddhist-flavored lending program, called Sajja Sasom Sab, continues to gain traction.
      Other temples and monasteries around predominantly Buddhist Thailand have followed his example. More than 40 of the country’s 76 provinces have witnessed monks get involved in similar microfinance projects.
      The reason for Phra Subin’s continued success?
      Some borrowers, depending on how well they are perceived to follow Buddhist precepts such as telling the truth or avoiding intoxicating substances, aren’t charged interest, Phra Subin says.
      “Other financial institutions, they look at your financial records, assets and collateral,” he explained in a Buddhist temple in the hub of his saving network here in Trat province. “But the community will evaluate your good deeds.” No-interest loans cut into the lender’s profit margin, but Phra Subin says that is offset by his system’s emphasis on Buddhist principles—he calls it a karmic peer-pressure system—which makes defaults virtually nonexistent.
      “If you are not honest or sincere to other group members, nobody will help you when you want to borrow the money,” Phra Subin continued. “This community will force you to practice Dharma, work hard, be honest and take responsibility. Otherwise no one will want you.”
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    • Sunny Narang
      By applying Buddhist precepts to its lending policies, Phra Subin’s microfinance operation in Thailand goes considerably further than its counterparts. Its supporters say that applying the concept of karma, that an individual’s actions inevitably affect them later in life, appears to reinforce the peer-pressure model that is at the root of most microfinance programs, helping to keep the operation’s borrowers from defaulting.
      The operation’s managers say there are no current defaults and the lender is in contact with all borrowers who are late on their payments. In Thailand’s commercial sector, loan defaults were about 2.16% of outstanding loans, or 278.2 billion baht in 2014. https://www.wsj.com/.../buddhist-monk-in-thailand-relies...
      Buddhist Monk in Thailand Relies on Karma for Lending Success
      WSJ.COM
      Buddhist Monk in Thailand Relies on Karma for Lending Success
      Buddhist Monk in Thailand Relies on Karma for Lending Success
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    • Sunny Narang
      Aparna
       it might be interesting for you to read the principles of an Islamic bank which has 650 branches in more than 15 countries . http://www.albaraka.com/default.asp?action=article&id=46
      Al Baraka
      ALBARAKA.COM
      Al Baraka
      Al Baraka
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    • Aparna Krishnan
      All this should be the core syllabus of IIMs !!
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  • Sunny Narang
    The hawala system has existed since the 8th century between Arabic and Muslim traders alongside the Silk Road and beyond as a protection against theft. It is believed to have arisen in the financing of long-distance trade around the emerging capital trade centers in the early medieval period. In South Asia, it appears to have developed into a fully-fledged money market instrument, which was only gradually replaced by the instruments of the formal banking system in the first half of the 20th century. The word angadia means courier in Hindi, but also designates those who act as hawaladars within India. These people mostly act as a parallel banking system for businessmen. They charge a commission of around 0.2–0.5% per transaction from transferring money from one city to another. Economic and cultural factors explain the attractiveness of the hawala system. It is less expensive, swifter, more reliable, more convenient, and less bureaucratic than the formal financial sector. Hawaldars charge fees or sometimes use the exchange rate spread to generate income. The fees charged by hawaladars on the transfer of funds are lower than those charged by banks and other remitting companies, thanks mainly to minimal overhead expenses and the absence of regulatory costs to the hawaladars, who often operate other small businesses. To encourage foreign exchange transfers through their system, hawaladars sometimes exempt expatriates from paying fees. In contrast, they reportedly charge higher fees to those who use the system to avoid exchange, capital, or administrative controls. These higher fees often cover all the expenses of the hawaladars.
    The system is swifter than formal financial transfer systems partly because of the lack of bureaucracy and the simplicity of its operating mechanism; instructions are given to correspondents by phone, facsimile, or e-mail; and funds are often delivered door to door within 24 hours by a correspondent who has quick access to villages even in remote areas. The minimal documentation and accounting requirements, the simple management, and the lack of bureaucratic procedures help reduce the time needed for transfer operations. https://www.gdrc.org/icm/hawala.html
    The Hawala System
    GDRC.ORG
    The Hawala System
    The Hawala System
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  • Sunny Narang
    Aparna
     in the "real world" of business traditional kin groups can hold their own for faster, cheaper and less bureaucratic transfer of funds within cities and countries .
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  • Vipin Sharma
    Sharia law is the most adaptive, it was a sin in Sharia to levy interest so in the modern banking the muslims take 'profit' that is not taboo under sharia. Clever move.
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