Yesterday some more 'activists' exposed themselves. As they mocked the people of TN for their 'heroine worship', and for carrying her face as their profile.
The common people are the final judges. Only the poor know the worh of affordable food, and Amma canteens. We the overfed can call it populist in our superciliousness.
The sleek activists can post condescending posts and seek likes and shares and please never step out of their virtual screen worlds in the real world of people and their dignity and their gratitude and their hunger and their generosities.
Palanivelu Rangasamy I do not know anything about the activists you are referring to. But I do strongly believe that it is a psychological sell out. This is not the kind of 'rationality' and 'self-respect' for which Periyar spent whole of his life. The offshoots that emerged from his movement and ruled Tamil Nadu since 1960s have literally taken the citizenry of Tamil Nadu to the height of sycophancy, and Jayalalitha had pinnacled in it.
Aparna Krishnan that is the educated perspective. but i am also not willing to day the 'masses' are 'fools'. There is obviously something in her policies that have addressed an essential need. Not the mixies that they also dismiss. But the Amma canteens. And there is the fact that TN does have the best health indices.
Priya Jain I agree with Aparna. Whatever else was wrong, Tamil Nadu has the best health indices (and I read a wonderful article on how Jayalalitha totally backed organ transplant which is a huge need in India). And the Amma canteens. Although Aparna I have also read that the canteens lose money - and I wish it could be self sustaining - but no one can deny the need and really there needs to be such canteens all over India. There have been some similar attempts in the NCR area, but haven't heard how they are doing.
Palanivelu Rangasamy Two people who really made the foundation in Tamil Nadu had been Periyar and Kamaraj. Starting from Annadurai till Jaya, everyone has only contributed towards weakening that foundation. I consider this particular period in Tamil Nadu as politically pathological.
Komakkambedu Himakiran Periyar and Kamarajar died in the early to mid 70s. Around the same time, the human development indices of Tamilnadu were below national average. Now we are comparable to middle income countries, despite working under a constraining Union where we give more revenue to the Union than what we get allocated.
Only 3 people have ruled us since that period. Kalaignar, MGR and Amma.
Aparna Krishnan Komakkambedu Himakiran Anugula QED.
Aparna Krishnan Credit has to be given where due, just as questions need to also be asked where needed.
Komakkambedu Himakiran Let's see what Amartya Sen and Jean Dreze have to say about Tamilnadu.
https://www.facebook.com/ragunaath/posts
Ragunaath Rathnam
#DravidianEconomics / #DravidianWelfare
Throughout the 1970s and 1980s official poverty estimates for Tamil Nadu were higher than the corresponding all-India figures, for both rural and urban areas (about half of the population was below the Planning Commission’s measly poverty line).
#DravidianEconomics / #DravidianWelfare
Throughout the 1970s and 1980s official poverty estimates for Tamil Nadu were higher than the corresponding all-India figures, for both rural and urban areas (about half of the population was below the Planning Commission’s measly poverty line).
It is during that period that Tamil Nadu, much to the consternation of
many economists, initiated bold social programmes such as universal
midday meals in primary schools and started putting in place an
extensive social infrastructure – schools, health centres, roads, public
transport, water supply, electricity connections, and much more. This
was not just a reflection of kind-heartedness on the part of the ruling
elite, but an outcome of democratic politics, including organized public
pressure. Disadvantaged groups, particularly Dalits, had to fight for
their share at every step.
Today, Tamil Nadu has some of the best public services among all Indian states, and many of them are accessible to all on a nondiscriminatory basis.
The question arises as to how and when Tamil Nadu developed this commitment to universal and well-functioning public services. Various interpretations have been proposed, focusing for instance on early social reforms (including the ‘self-respect movement’ founded by Periyar in the 1920s), the political empowerment of disadvantaged castes, the hold of populist politics, and the constructive agency of women in Tamil society. These and other aspects of the social history of Tamil Nadu, and their relevance to the state’s contemporary achievements, remain a lively subject of research. What is interesting is that these different interpretations point, in one way or another, to the power of democratic action.
- Amartya Sen and Jean Dreze
Today, Tamil Nadu has some of the best public services among all Indian states, and many of them are accessible to all on a nondiscriminatory basis.
The question arises as to how and when Tamil Nadu developed this commitment to universal and well-functioning public services. Various interpretations have been proposed, focusing for instance on early social reforms (including the ‘self-respect movement’ founded by Periyar in the 1920s), the political empowerment of disadvantaged castes, the hold of populist politics, and the constructive agency of women in Tamil society. These and other aspects of the social history of Tamil Nadu, and their relevance to the state’s contemporary achievements, remain a lively subject of research. What is interesting is that these different interpretations point, in one way or another, to the power of democratic action.
- Amartya Sen and Jean Dreze
Aparna Krishnan Komakkambedu Himakiran Anugula " much to the consternation of many economists" why ?
Aparna Krishnan "constructive agency of women in Tamil society." Compared to other states women have been more politically active here ?
Komakkambedu Himakiran Aparna Krishnan he's talking about the top down economists who have ruined the world. The elitism that marks their thinking is despicable. They talk about freebies which are actually social welfare measures with proven results, but are silent on the corporate freebies.
Komakkambedu Himakiran I think they mean the role women play in the economic and social development of the state. We have the highest number of women working in non agricultural, traditional fields. We have the highest number of women owned businesses.
Palanivelu Rangasamy Komakkambedu Himakiran Anugula Yes, Periyar and Kamaraj passed away in the 1970s. I have clearly said that they have created a solid foundation, never claimed that they had achieved all what had to be achieved.
In the 1990s, I had been extensively travelling in the then undivided UP. In most of the higher educational institutions more than 80% of the students were from higher castes. The scene in Tamil Nadu was different just due to Periyar's movement. Let us hypothetically assume that Periyar had not been there in the social history of Tamil Nadu. Do you thing Karunanidhi, MGR or Jayalilitha would have done the job? They never had time to pamper themselves, forget about fundamental social transformation.
Now let us come to food based schemes. Midday meal scheme in the schools was initially introduced by Kamaraj. What the following governments did was only a matter of adding frills.
Kamaraj had the habit of reading out petitions in the concerned meeting itself and make decisions instantly.
Today in government offices all jobs are done for a price only. There is no walk of life where corruption has not entered.
Education is absolutely a business. Even the little meaning that existed in the education has evaporated. A cut throat generation that sees nothing beyond money has emerged.
In front of my own eyes I have seen my contemporaries entering into politics and emerging to be persons worth thousands of crores by minister for just one term.
Police stations have become the most dreaded place for commoners.
Justice is again for a price. We all know what happened to Piyush Manush. His is a very live story to all of us.
Education and jobs have become commodities to be bought. If somebody is paying crores to become VC of some university, what do you derive out of this happening. Caste associations make collections in order to make payment for their caste candidate to become VC in some university.
Caste divide in the rural Tamil Nadu has become so deep. For every damn thing caste stands in the forefront. When I left my village in the early 1980s, in the village caste used to be just a social phenomena. Today the caste is deeply political and dangerous.
Today's Tamilian is self-centred, deeply irrational, asocial and above all anti-Tamil. Nothing like society exists for him except individual greed.
We can go on listing like this.
All these negative transformations have taken place during the reign of three idiots: Karunanidhi, MGR and Jayalilitha.
Let us see what all this age old civilization is made to face.
Komakkambedu Himakiran //Starting from Annadurai till Jaya, everyone has only contributed towards weakening that foundation. I consider this particular period in Tamil Nadu as politically pathological.//
Nobody denies the social and political platform that Periyar built and the Economic, Educational platform that Kamarajar built. That's the foundation this state is built on. But denying everything good that happened in the past 49 years since Anna became CM, is a flawed argument. There are issues here too, but to portray Tamilnadu as a desolate place, doesn't pass muster. The proof is in the numbers. Take any socioeconomic parameter, human development indices etc, we would be the big state that's shown maximum gains and inevitably in the top 3 if not 1st.
Your accusations of corruption is a pan South Asian problem, if not the world. Nobody is defending it. But if something is common across all states, you leave that out of the comparison. Casteism is rearing its head from time to time, that's because of the devastation of the rural economy (now don't blame the globalisation problems on the Dravidian parties) and secondly the systemic groundwork being done by the RSS within a few communities.
Komakkambedu Himakiran If that foundation was weakened, you wouldn't have the socioeconomic development across all economic and social groups that we see here. Income disparity is also low here despite the crony capitalistic policies of the Delhi establishment.
Aparna Krishnan Komakkambedu Himakiran Anugula Income disparity in big cities here, as in any city is disgusting. Gurgaon may be ten times worse, but thats hardly our problem.
Komakkambedu Himakiran Aparna Krishnan it's not that much in Tamilnadu. The wealth and opportunities has been spread more widely.
Palanivelu Rangasamy Komakkambedu Himakiran Anugula First of all I agree that the position of Tamil Nadu is much better. I just do not go by the numbers alone. My subjective observations make me to say that Tamil Nadu has a unique place. Tamil Nadu has a unique kind of social security that emerges from the long history of civilizational evolution. Kerala also shares such social circumstances along with Tamil Nadu. For example, I stay all alone in my farm secluded from the main village. Such practice is unimaginable in most part of North India. In our locality and in most parts of Tamil Nadu, almost all farmers have their residence in the farm and stay there itself. Security is not an issue at all, except stray incidents which are very rare. A little bit of dilution is taking place in such secured social circumstances nowadays. Again that is due to unholy alliance among politics, police and justice. Due to this alliance the erring ones get protection leading to disturbance in the social fabric.
Doing for the sake of society ended with Kamaraj. Starting from Annadurai every action had a political agenda and that continues. In such circumstances, continuity and effectiveness of the schemes is immaterial. What they have done is just minimum performance to run the political show. So it is disturbing for me when greatness is attributed to these opportunists.
I would not call the situation in Tamil Nadu desolate but disturbed. The youth are beginning to realize the trait of the current political groups.
We will hope for constructive things to happen.
Komakkambedu Himakiran Society has changed from the 60s. Makkal evvazhiyo Arasan avvazhi!
Naveen Manikandan Periasamy Periyar in his congress days deserves praise for his integrity and steadfastness, but not the Periyar of the latter years who preferred British rule to self rule(where is the suyamariyadhai there?) and moved on to join hands with Jinnah to oppose the Indian Union. Then on it was a path of incremental derangement and hatred targeted at one particular community while caste biases of other communities were ignored. Periyar's speeches from the above period are proof enough. This is essentially why caste identities are still strong in TN and the members of DK movement continues to target, in their hate sermons, only the 'paarpaans' who have become a non-entity in the state.
The development of the state has multifaceted reasons and cannot be attributed purely to post Anna regimes. Kongu region for example has had entrepreneurs for a very long time which contributed to the relatively higher growth rate of the region. A lot of wrong has happened during the DMK regimes(land grabs, TASMAC, illegal mining) and ADMK regimes(massive corruption in transfers and appointments) to justify their rule, despite better social indicators compared to BIMARU states. In the corruption index, TN is in the rock bottom.
Komakkambedu Himakiran Naveen Manikandan Periasamy RSS is the reason why Tamilnadu is developed.
Komakkambedu Himakiran If you are calling the Tamil Brahmin community a non entity in TN, I can only say may be in a dream world. TamBrahm as they brand themselves is a powerful lobby in Delhi if not the most powerful and that lobby works for their brethren in TN. E.g.: Temple Archagar case.
Don't embarrass yourself with such pseudo naïveté!
Naveen Manikandan Periasamy Komakkambedu Himakiran Anugula How different is this from the stereotyping of Jews in early 20th century Europe? TamBrahms have been sidelined and isolated from TN politics with the exception of Amma and they use their lobbying at the center, just as any other caste group would for their respective caste as they have repeatedly done to get a bigger share of the reservation pie for their communities. Why is it that Periyarists ignore the casteism of other FC and BC castes of TN and only obsess with the Brahmins? The times are different now that what prevailed during Periyar's early days when the Parpaan would walk into a house and demand tributes and occupied most of the government posts. It is only the anti-brahmin poison injected into the minds of DK fanatics in the latter years of Periyar that makes them obsess about the eternal problem of the cunning and scheming paarpaans and makes them commit abominable crimes like disrobing octogenarian temple priests.
Good effort with the diacritical marks on' naivete'! Wish I can find a easier way to do that.
Komakkambedu Himakiran First you said they were a non entity, now they are a lobby!
Periyarists and other people oppose all casteism, it's the selective memory of RSS apologists that can't see beyond a Brahmin centric world view. Most TamBrahms themselves are aligned with the mainstream view here in TN, while the ones who have fallen prey to RSS ideology keep crying themselves hoarse just like "The boy who cried wolf"!
Every group has a fringe, your accusations are about the fringe here. For gods sake, don't compare it with the holocaust; that's just plain disrespectful to the Jews who suffered.
I'm done with you and your attempts to hijack the thread. The thread is about the socioeconomic development of TN during the Dravidian rule. Your subjective arguments don't apply here, the proof is in the numbers.
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