Saturday, 27 July 2019

Wall of Giving (2)

I see more and more "Wall of Giving" posts. Where the rich are encouraged to place their old clothes in shelves on the street where the poor can come and pick then up.
My village. Landless and poor. Will never pickup castaways from a street shelf.
Some friends have asked me if they can send their children's outgrown 'in good shape' clothes to my village. I have never permitted that.
The poor have dignity. Even when all else is gone. The poor are not beggers.
My plea. Allow them that. That dignity.
And because it's convenient to give away outgrown or excess clothes, don't.
Buy and give new clothes with dignity to the poor you know. If you can. Otherwise dont. But don't place used clothes on a street shelf.
Even if it helps you sleep better.

Aparna Krishnan
Cultural differences.
Here my village people don't want them.
Here within friends or relatives sharing clothes is one thing.
We can share old clothes with the poor, if we will also were the used clothes they may give us.
Will we ? They know the answer.

Santosh Koulagi It needs lot of sensitivity to understand what you are saying.
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  • Aparna Krishnan Maybe it is experiential ? It has to be lived. To be understood.
    1
  • Santosh Koulagi Aparna Krishnan yes. It is experiential.
  • Aparna Krishnan Santosh Koulagi and yet, even when I was a urban youngster I would have understood this. I have friends who are completely urban and who understand.

    I think it comes from a understanding of self. If an honesty that sees ourselves the privileged as violaters and not as 'saviours'.

    Then one can more easily see through one s own gimmicks. Like the Wall of Giving !

 Via Amarendra Srivastava

Agree. Discarding and calling it "Giving" is obnoxious and demeaning to the person you think you are "helping". Urban people love to use the word empathy. If you are that urban discarder who calls it giving, try to use empathy - put yourself in the shoes (though they may not even have that) of the poor. How would you feel if the same is done to you?

  • Seshagiri BV
    Akka, This is the era of reduce, recycle and reuse.
    Please ponder upon, there cannot be straight jacket rules or formulas, for all aspects, occasions, events, distress and happenings.
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    • Edited
    • Aparna Krishnan
      Seshagiri BV sure, please let's give outgrown and 'well kept' clothing to our colleagues and bosses. Let's begin there.
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      • 2y
    • Chitra Sharan
      I have given to my colleagues, if they say they like something that I wear, Aparna..🙂
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    • Aparna Krishnan
      Chitra Sharan yes, once the bond of equality if is there, yes. I would suggest that giving and taking used clothes stay in that zone.
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    • Chitra Sharan
      you said try giving them to your colleagues and I said yes I have given.. I have worn theirs too..
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    • Seshagiri BV
      Aparna Krishnan I have worn used clothes of my siblings. Even my children and their cousins reuse and wear good clothes.
      Whenever a child is born, old used cotton sarees are presented to the new born to be used for wrapping, towel, bedsheet etc and eleven days the child were old/used clothes of other children for 11 days. Only after the ritual bath (purudu snanam) the child wears new clothes.
      Akka, I admire you lot. Let me reiterate my post was without any prejudice.
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    • Aparna Krishnan
      Seshagiri BV give used clothes to those, whose used clothes you are willing to wear.
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    • Seshagiri BV
      Whenever I give my old clothes which are in good condition, I wash them and Iron them properly before passing them to the needy.
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    • Aparna Krishnan
      Sure. But ... "Give used clothes to those, whose used clothes you are willing to wear."
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    • Seshagiri BV
      Aparna Krishnan please ponder upon later ?
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  • Mamatha Balasubramanian
    I think it depends on the intention of the giver and what is acceptable to the receiver. I have taken clothes for my son and for myself from friends who didn't need them. I've passed on ours to friends who have accepted them.
    If the people of your village would be offended by used clothes, I would dare not give them. At the same time, if there's a "Wall of Giving" like what you talk about and there are people who would use them, I'll gladly donate.
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    • Aparna Krishnan
      The point is simple. Give poor people your clothes, if you have it in you to wear their used clothes when they gift it to you.
      The essence is dignity. Every other thing has to be based on the non negotiable fact.


I saw a post on a 'scrounging table' for the needy. There were earlier some posts on 'fridges for the poor'.
The first thing to be preserved in any transaction is the dignity. The very giving has to be with the deepest respect built into the process.
The giver has a right to give only that which he can give with the deepest humility, and with a gratitude that he could give.
Aparna Krishnan - I prefer the Indian annadaanam to a 'scrounging table'. The giver and receiver are bonded in equality when food is served with respect at a temple or a gurudwara. Only that act which has deepest respect built in, in every sense, may be offered.
The 'scrounging' word itself is wrong. And if my village had a table where richer people left extra food, my village people would never go and pick up from there. And I am glad.



There is another 'fridge for the poor' being installed, where the rich hotels and rich people can donate food. Saw a post today. I think its a very bad idea.
My village people will never go to a 'shelf for needy people' and pick up things. they would rather stay needy. The way to share (or actually, return their due to them !) has to be in ways that validates dignity. Their honour and dignity is 200%..
This is the kind of context-less idea that those unaware of the richness of the poor will come up with.
If they actually wish to engage meaningfully there are many ways. Just hold annadaanam in the temples in that locality. Nitya annadaanam. That is a tradition in this land, hallowed and respected. We do that in our village many times.
Vigneshwaran RK, Dhara Sheth and 25 others
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16 Comments

  • Sharadha Krishm
    Such a copy cat idea from the west!! When will we stop aping westerners?!
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    • 4y
  • Alwar Narayanan
    The honest citizen expects Govt to provide for him. Because he knows it is to the government that indirectly he is working and his ancestors worked for. You cannot make him poor and begger by removing and disowning everything and later provide some alms.
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  • Abraham Thomas
    They want to make us follow new standards perhaps
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  • Aarti Madhusudan
    We should ask the hungry person who uses such initiatives for her/his view - easy to condemn ad judge on a full stomach ðŸ™‚
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  • Aparna Krishnan
    1. Give - with dignity. That is my demand Aarti. Let him not walk to a Needy Fridge. Let there be an annadaanam organized at his place open to all 2. My village people would never walk to a Needy Fridge. That I know. That is the dignity we need to protect.
    My full stonach has little to do with thes two points above.
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    • Aarti Madhusudan
      I have asked in several temples if we could donate there so that more annadanam can be done - e.g thiruvanmiyur temple. They have always said NO - we can max serve only 50-75 people. I have also asked if we can help with volunteers who can help cook - again NO. Similar response in a few other temples. I am also all for public feeding and many groups in Chennai do this- home made cooked food that is served.
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    • Aparna Krishnan
      We need to demand better behaviour from our temples.
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  • Subha Bharadwaj
    Aparna Krishnan the fridge does not go to the villages, it's for the urban poor I guess.
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  • Aparna Krishnan
    I am talking of the dignity of urban poor here. There is an Amman temple in each poor locality. For Annadaanam.
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  • Aparna Krishnan
    Every intervention needs to be rooted in dignity. Uncompromisingly.
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  • Subha Bharadwaj
    Definitely agree on the dignity part
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  • Chitra Sharan
    While i agree with the dignity part, a place of worship for annadanam may restrict people from other religions. I have had friends from different religions who would refuse to eat prasadam and anything offered to God or used for religious purposes. Instead of negating this idea totally, we need to come up with suggestions to make this an effort that ensures the dignity for all who are in need.
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  • Chitra Sharan
    I see two positives here - one is access to people across religious beliefs and food at all times, so that people can take it when they want.
    3


A reminder.
My village people are landless labourers. They do not take old sarees, and old clothes. Sometimes people have wanted to give to the village clothes which their children had outgrown, and I have always begged off. I have told them they could give money instead to get them new clothes from Kothapeta or Pakala. Some did, and some did not.
The poor may be poor, but they have the same dignity as you and I. Unless they are starved and shivering and destitiue, and god protect them from that state. So please do not give away what you discard to the poor. Give what you yourself value.
(I heard that some give their servants IPads which their children discard. What for ?? To destroy them thro' unattainable consumerist addictions ?? )
  • Nath Kal
    Aparna, I have a PhD, my husband's a civil servant here in the UK and most of the clothes for myself and the kids comes second-hand from charity shops. There's a lot of good stuff that people donate and a lot of rubbish too. But good bargains are to be had. i've saved a ton of money and got some rather nice stuff. I even once got hubby a nice hand-made tweed jacket in a market in the second- hand market Kampala, Uganda which he wore for years ðŸ™‚
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    • Edited
    • Aparna Krishnan
      But for my village people please send money !
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    • Aparna Krishnan
      And I also prefer new clothes, though I usually buy the most inexpensive. So I understand my village people also. Maybe its an indian mindset.
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    • Nath Kal
      Maybe one idea might be to target the donations: money for the things that you must buy, like food items, fodder etc, but maybe you shouldn't rule out donated clothes, but stress that the donated items should be in excellent condition. In the Caribbean when I was little, we got barrels of clothes from richer relations in the towns to help us get by during tough times. Some fit, others were turned into all sorts of things: underpants, kitchen cloths by my Ma, I remember spending time cutting rags into little pieces which were then woven into old jute sacks to make bedside mats.
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      • 6y
    • Aparna Krishnan
      I wouldnt. Anyway the route to my village is three buses, a shared auto and walking. So I am not willing to carry old clothes to boot. I carry a lot of medicines and other things anyway. And primarily, I respect the choices my village people make. And those who wish to give, need to give in the paradigm of the village only.
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  • Chitra Sharan
    This is one good practice I respect from the West, but in India , not just the people of this village, others too don't like hand me downs. Personally my kids and I have used hand me downs from friends and relatives. In Kodaikanal there used to be a thrift store selling warm clothes and other stuff, a lot of people there would buy them.
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    • Nath Kal
      Same in the Caribbean, Chitra. Most people still go to the shops for new things. Or better, buy the material and pay someone to sew it for them. But increasingly now people are buying ready-made clothing from the shops. People are very bothered and conscious about what people might think if they saw them wearing hand-me-downs or second hand.
      • Like
      • 6y
    • Aravinda Pillalamarri
      Most people in India use their own clothes till they are threadbare. So the issue of hand me downs does not arise. That is actually preferable to a situation (as in US / UK) where people pass along clothes in good condition just because they can buy more. Now what is happening in India is the worst of both - people adopt the wasteful lifestyle of getting more clothes when what they have still fits AND not wanting second-hand clothes. This is happening only due to the exploitation at every stage from the growing of the cotton / manufacture of the synthetics / murder of the silkworm to the conditions in the factory and the transport of the goods and all of these are incidentally the reasons I dread new clothes.
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    • Aparna Krishnan
      The people I speak of wear till threadbare, and are quite in the clear in wanting new clothes. I love the feeling of clothes going threadbare, and so I am also in that category (like you are with your patches.) Regarding the consuming elite, the less said the better. They can keep their many discarded clothes, and years later be buried with them ! The village people do not want them !!
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    • Aravinda Pillalamarri
      btw I have had positive experiences with giving clothes to friends in the village. One can give with love and people can receive with love, looking beyond the "thing" to the thought and the giver. But this requires forging a relationship first.
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    • Aparna Krishnan
      We have deep friendships, but I dont give. My sarees are used to their ultimate conclusion anyway ! And as I buy inexpensive sarees they easily look old. Once a city neighbour sent and they didnt want it, and I simply stopped after that.
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    • Aravinda Pillalamarri
      Sure, it varies from person to person.
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  • Chitra Sharan
    It's a mindset and we need to respect that Kala. One of my bosses am American used to tell me how she got her house done up with discarded stuff by her neighbours ðŸ˜Š
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    • Aravinda Pillalamarri
      Indeed what makes me indignant all that is involved in producing new clothes. But enough about me ðŸ˜‰
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    • Aravinda Pillalamarri
      And we should also respect that people's attitudes are not set in stone and people also change their minds.
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  • Archana Prasad
    The idea is that they are supported through alternate employment or resources(money )to support or learn a skill. .but that comes only after they are saved from starvation snd pessimism. This reminds me of the children that hang outside the temples are turning into beggars before they realise..so giving alms is different from giving opportunity or better still giving a bit if ourselves.
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    • Aparna Krishnan
      yes, one needs to be alert. And maintaining the dignity of communities and individuals comes before everything else.
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  • Chitra Sharan
    Totally agree with you Archana, the situation is sensitive there and we need to be mindful. My comment is on general situations and broad mindset in relation to second hand and hand me down culture.
    3
  • Aparna Krishnan
    Well, I would take a saree from a very close friend, but would not buy one from a second hand shop. My village people, far poorer, have the same attitude - and I an glad of that. The norms should be the same for the poor and rich. Overall the norms may be questioned if one wishes to.
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  • Archana Prasad
    It's also about how you're doing financially. .when I'm well off, I would accept a hand me down from a dear one..but the same at the time ov financial crisis will not be acceptable because it would hurt my self esteem..
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    • Aparna Krishnan
      yes. all the more reason to be most careful about giving, when we give.
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  • Chitra Sharan
    I can speak for myself and say I am fine with it anytime.
    I was grateful when I got stuff I couldn't afford and I am happy that I get variety when someone shares things with me even if I could afford to spend ðŸ˜Š
    5
  • Aravinda Pillalamarri
    We almost never get new clothes for ourselves. I have learned to pass our hand-me-downs only to those who I know will like them as much as I do. If I don't find someone who will enjoy them I just hold onto them. I agree that it is not a good idea to randomly send them to strangers without knowing what they like. The only time I buy new cloth is when I buy khadi and take it to the tailor. For myself, I think of second hand clothes as more eco-friendly than khadi. In reality the sustainable solution is to use fewer clothes. Reduce comes before reuse. I have also got into the habit of patching clothes when they get torn, which makes them look even more adorable. dd also has this habit and is even more prompt in patching her clothes than I am. (which is good since hers get torn more often too ðŸ˜‰
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  • Aravinda Pillalamarri
    Yes, Chitra Sharan. This is why "Give what you yourself value" would not suffice to avoid the potential for misunderstanding because someone else might not value something that I do. Giving money must also be done with sensitivity and respecting dignity, or not at all.
     
    • Unable to delete comment.
    • Aparna Krishnan
      Yes, 'to do unto others as you would ...' is a dicey injunction !
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    • Aravinda Pillalamarri
      No, you just have to understand it thoughtfully. If someone gave me a gift that I did not like, if I believed they did it with love and respect, albeit ignorance as to what I would like, I would still be grateful for their thought. After all, it is t… 
      See More
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    • Aparna Krishnan
      As takers, yes. And as giver to remember that tastes may not match is a good thing to keep in mind when we 'do unto others as ...' !
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  • Akila Venkat
    Aparna I wear 2nd hand, why, 3rd hand clothes of my close ones! If the clothes are not torn and are in wearable condition, why shouldn't one accept it? I have a huge collection of 2nd hand clothes of my friends and family members. Dignity never crossed my mind and it never will.
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    • Aparna Krishnan
      Sure you can. My village people choose not to. Thats all.
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    • Aparna Krishnan
      And then I simply respect that. For people living at the end of existance - they do not need me to advise them on 'reducing needs', illiya ?! ðŸ™‚
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    • Vinod Mall
      I am with Aparna Krishnan on the issue. It is not just what you give but how you view that giving is equally important. Aparna is not just helping them, she is helping them living a dignified life, in fact she herself is living that life.
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  • Uma KS
    While I completely understand Aparna's stand, I've worn a lot of hand-me-downs too all my adult life, and I've also given a lot of my clothes (that didn't fit anymore) to thinner friends and a friend's cook. Likewise with footwear (when I stopped wearing heels) and other stuff. Now I'm giving away my books to those of my friends who read. Several of my friends do this too - exchange clothes with others.
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  • Aparna Krishnan
    Please send me all your books !!!





A reminder.
My village people are landless labourers. They do not take old sarees, and old clothes. Sometimes people have wanted to give to the village clothes which their children had outgrown, and I have always begged off. I have told them they could give money instead to get them new clothes from Kothapeta or Pakala. Some did, and some did not.
The poor may be poor, but they have the same dignity as you and I. Unless they are starved and shivering and destitiue, and god protect them from that state. So please do not give away what you discard to the poor. Give what you yourself value.
(I heard that some give their servants IPads which their children discard. What for ?? To destroy them thro' unattainable consumerist addictions ?? )
Shyamala Sanyal, Archana Prasad and 18 others
32 Comments
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32 Comments

  • Nath Kal
    Aparna, I have a PhD, my husband's a civil servant here in the UK and most of the clothes for myself and the kids comes second-hand from charity shops. There's a lot of good stuff that people donate and a lot of rubbish too. But good bargains are to be had. i've saved a ton of money and got some rather nice stuff. I even once got hubby a nice hand-made tweed jacket in a market in the second- hand market Kampala, Uganda which he wore for years ðŸ™‚
    7
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    • 6y
    • Edited
    • Aparna Krishnan
      But for my village people please send money !
      3
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      • 6y
    • Aparna Krishnan
      And I also prefer new clothes, though I usually buy the most inexpensive. So I understand my village people also. Maybe its an indian mindset.
      3
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      • Reply
      • 6y
    • Nath Kal
      Maybe one idea might be to target the donations: money for the things that you must buy, like food items, fodder etc, but maybe you shouldn't rule out donated clothes, but stress that the donated items should be in excellent condition. In the Caribbean when I was little, we got barrels of clothes from richer relations in the towns to help us get by during tough times. Some fit, others were turned into all sorts of things: underpants, kitchen cloths by my Ma, I remember spending time cutting rags into little pieces which were then woven into old jute sacks to make bedside mats.
      5
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      • 6y
    • Aparna Krishnan
      I wouldnt. Anyway the route to my village is three buses, a shared auto and walking. So I am not willing to carry old clothes to boot. I carry a lot of medicines and other things anyway. And primarily, I respect the choices my village people make. And those who wish to give, need to give in the paradigm of the village only.
      3
      • Like
      • Reply
      • 6y
      • Edited
  • Chitra Sharan
    This is one good practice I respect from the West, but in India , not just the people of this village, others too don't like hand me downs. Personally my kids and I have used hand me downs from friends and relatives. In Kodaikanal there used to be a thrift store selling warm clothes and other stuff, a lot of people there would buy them.
    7
    • Nath Kal
      Same in the Caribbean, Chitra. Most people still go to the shops for new things. Or better, buy the material and pay someone to sew it for them. But increasingly now people are buying ready-made clothing from the shops. People are very bothered and conscious about what people might think if they saw them wearing hand-me-downs or second hand.
      • Like
      • 6y
    • Aravinda Pillalamarri
      Most people in India use their own clothes till they are threadbare. So the issue of hand me downs does not arise. That is actually preferable to a situation (as in US / UK) where people pass along clothes in good condition just because they can buy more. Now what is happening in India is the worst of both - people adopt the wasteful lifestyle of getting more clothes when what they have still fits AND not wanting second-hand clothes. This is happening only due to the exploitation at every stage from the growing of the cotton / manufacture of the synthetics / murder of the silkworm to the conditions in the factory and the transport of the goods and all of these are incidentally the reasons I dread new clothes.
      1
      • Like
      • 6y
    • Aparna Krishnan
      The people I speak of wear till threadbare, and are quite in the clear in wanting new clothes. I love the feeling of clothes going threadbare, and so I am also in that category (like you are with your patches.) Regarding the consuming elite, the less said the better. They can keep their many discarded clothes, and years later be buried with them ! The village people do not want them !!
      • Like
      • 6y
    • Aravinda Pillalamarri
      btw I have had positive experiences with giving clothes to friends in the village. One can give with love and people can receive with love, looking beyond the "thing" to the thought and the giver. But this requires forging a relationship first.
      • Like
      • 6y
    • Aparna Krishnan
      We have deep friendships, but I dont give. My sarees are used to their ultimate conclusion anyway ! And as I buy inexpensive sarees they easily look old. Once a city neighbour sent and they didnt want it, and I simply stopped after that.
      • Like
      • 6y
    • Aravinda Pillalamarri
      Sure, it varies from person to person.
      • Like
      • 6y
  • Chitra Sharan
    It's a mindset and we need to respect that Kala. One of my bosses am American used to tell me how she got her house done up with discarded stuff by her neighbours ðŸ˜Š
    2
    • Aravinda Pillalamarri
      Indeed what makes me indignant all that is involved in producing new clothes. But enough about me ðŸ˜‰
      • Like
      • 6y
    • Aravinda Pillalamarri
      And we should also respect that people's attitudes are not set in stone and people also change their minds.
      2
      • Like
      • 6y
  • Archana Prasad
    The idea is that they are supported through alternate employment or resources(money )to support or learn a skill. .but that comes only after they are saved from starvation snd pessimism. This reminds me of the children that hang outside the temples are turning into beggars before they realise..so giving alms is different from giving opportunity or better still giving a bit if ourselves.
    1
    • Like
    • Reply
    • 6y
    • Aparna Krishnan
      yes, one needs to be alert. And maintaining the dignity of communities and individuals comes before everything else.
      2
      • Like
      • Reply
      • 6y
  • Chitra Sharan
    Totally agree with you Archana, the situation is sensitive there and we need to be mindful. My comment is on general situations and broad mindset in relation to second hand and hand me down culture.
    3
  • Aparna Krishnan
    Well, I would take a saree from a very close friend, but would not buy one from a second hand shop. My village people, far poorer, have the same attitude - and I an glad of that. The norms should be the same for the poor and rich. Overall the norms may be questioned if one wishes to.
    1
    • Like
    • Reply
    • 6y
  • Archana Prasad
    It's also about how you're doing financially. .when I'm well off, I would accept a hand me down from a dear one..but the same at the time ov financial crisis will not be acceptable because it would hurt my self esteem..
    3
    • Like
    • Reply
    • 6y
    • Aparna Krishnan
      yes. all the more reason to be most careful about giving, when we give.
      2
      • Like
      • Reply
      • 6y
  • Chitra Sharan
    I can speak for myself and say I am fine with it anytime.
    I was grateful when I got stuff I couldn't afford and I am happy that I get variety when someone shares things with me even if I could afford to spend ðŸ˜Š
    5
  • Aravinda Pillalamarri
    We almost never get new clothes for ourselves. I have learned to pass our hand-me-downs only to those who I know will like them as much as I do. If I don't find someone who will enjoy them I just hold onto them. I agree that it is not a good idea to randomly send them to strangers without knowing what they like. The only time I buy new cloth is when I buy khadi and take it to the tailor. For myself, I think of second hand clothes as more eco-friendly than khadi. In reality the sustainable solution is to use fewer clothes. Reduce comes before reuse. I have also got into the habit of patching clothes when they get torn, which makes them look even more adorable. dd also has this habit and is even more prompt in patching her clothes than I am. (which is good since hers get torn more often too ðŸ˜‰
    3
    • Like
    • Reply
    • 6y
  • Aravinda Pillalamarri
    Yes, Chitra Sharan. This is why "Give what you yourself value" would not suffice to avoid the potential for misunderstanding because someone else might not value something that I do. Giving money must also be done with sensitivity and respecting dignity, or not at all.
     
    • Unable to delete comment.
    • Aparna Krishnan
      Yes, 'to do unto others as you would ...' is a dicey injunction !
      • Like
      • Reply
      • 6y
    • Aravinda Pillalamarri
      No, you just have to understand it thoughtfully. If someone gave me a gift that I did not like, if I believed they did it with love and respect, albeit ignorance as to what I would like, I would still be grateful for their thought. After all, it is t… 
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    • Aparna Krishnan
      As takers, yes. And as giver to remember that tastes may not match is a good thing to keep in mind when we 'do unto others as ...' !
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  • Akila Venkat
    Aparna I wear 2nd hand, why, 3rd hand clothes of my close ones! If the clothes are not torn and are in wearable condition, why shouldn't one accept it? I have a huge collection of 2nd hand clothes of my friends and family members. Dignity never crossed my mind and it never will.
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    • Edited
    • Aparna Krishnan
      Sure you can. My village people choose not to. Thats all.
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    • Aparna Krishnan
      And then I simply respect that. For people living at the end of existance - they do not need me to advise them on 'reducing needs', illiya ?! ðŸ™‚
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    • Vinod Mall
      I am with Aparna Krishnan on the issue. It is not just what you give but how you view that giving is equally important. Aparna is not just helping them, she is helping them living a dignified life, in fact she herself is living that life.
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  • Uma KS
    While I completely understand Aparna's stand, I've worn a lot of hand-me-downs too all my adult life, and I've also given a lot of my clothes (that didn't fit anymore) to thinner friends and a friend's cook. Likewise with footwear (when I stopped wearing heels) and other stuff. Now I'm giving away my books to those of my friends who read. Several of my friends do this too - exchange clothes with others.
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  • Aparna Krishnan
    Please send me all your books !!!
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