Atheism and Theism

In 'modern educated times' the religion that brooks no questioning is Science. The modern atheist 'usually' thereby feels superior to the 'superstitious theist' who prays to idols/stones. 

On some post and discussions on theism a friend asked me on an aside in a message, "Who is this God they are objecting to so violently ?".

I answered him, "I'm not sure. Some of them say they object to a white bearded man up in the clouds, who hands out punishments and rewards."

He said, "They would be surprised to know how much many of us agree with them ! "

Aparna Krishnan

6 hrs · 

A response now to a friend who posted on why religion is meaningless, why he calls himself an atheist, and why religion had only caused wars.

(Quote)

Again differ. 🙏

I can only speak for my religion, as I do not have an in-depth understanding of other religions. In my religion the eka roopa devata or ishta devata is the first stage where God is given a form and name ( Roopa Nama) as the untrained mind needs that focus. The next step is Vishwaoopa Ishwara where God is seen as immanent in all. These two are not exclusive. In my village, Gangamma, Vinayaka are worshipped as also the anthill and the peepul tree.

The third and final stage is Aham Brahmasmi, where godhood is seen as part of oneself. And God and self dissolve into the whole.

I am sorry, much of the ranting of atheists is with scant understanding and study. To frame and present a thesis without requisite study is irresponsible and invalid.

As to religion fomenting divisions, religion has preached oneness, unity, generosity, tolerance. That man distorts every system including religion to serve his innate nature to fall, to serve his greed and insecurity, needs to be seen for what it is.

These are the songs of religion that are common across the length and breadth on this land, across villages and towns.

 

On a discussion on theism a friend, asked me on an aside in a message, "Who is this God they are objecting to so violently ?".

I answered him, "I'm not sure. Some of them say they object to a white bearded man up in the clouds, who hands out punishments and rewards."

He said, "They would be surprised to know how much many of us agree with them ! "

uSanMtarSchf pnongelSs8,io 201Sred6ro  · 

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When the atheist dismisses all religions as foolish, and for the weakminded, does he dismiss all people in all villages as foolish and weakminded.

That is my only humble submission to the atheist - that that is invalid.

8Mark Johnston, Sreenivasan Ravichandran and 6 others

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• Mark Johnston

  Perhaps most people who have or don't have a religion are actually quietly tolerant of those whose beliefs differ. That there are some loud mouthed and intolerant people who either promote or dismiss religion should not surprise us. Sometimes, in my view, a justifiable critique of the way those in charge of organised religions can manipulate followers to gain personal power over others wrongly spills over into a criticism or dismissal of believers.

Daughter, reading some post on atheism, ROFL, "Can you imagine Eashwaramma saying things like this ! 'I am an atheist' ! Or 'I am an agnostic'. 

Or Annasamy Thatha coming and telling us," I'm confused. Is there a Devudu ..."

She went away in splits, at the confusions of the overeducated of this land ...

Paalaguttapalle Dalitwada.

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Paromita Goswami

What is there to be in splits? Whether educated or not philosophical questions about the existence and nature of God has been quite fundamental in human history.

 · Reply · 2y

Aparna Krishnan

Because every single Indian with his/her roots intact is religious. This is a land where divinity is seen in every temple large and small, every river, every hill.

And please dont offer the Charvaks as a counter example !

 · Reply · 1y

Paromita Goswami

Even so that does not mean one should stop asking a philosophical question. Even if every single person on the planet becomes religious there can always be someone asking a different question. What's funny about It?

 · Reply · 1y

Aparna Krishnan

The the so called educated Indian, even the so called activist who claims to be working to save people, is so disconnected from the rythm of the people, their ethos, their praxis.

We stay so unaware of our utter loss of roots.

 · Reply · 1y

Paromita Goswami

There can be agnostics and atheists and questioners amonst the uneducated. On the other hand educated can be as religious as the uneducated. Have met both sorts.

 · Reply · 1y · Edited

Aparna Krishnan

The rooted of this land are religious. So called educated, or otherwise. Gandhi or the assassins of Gandhi.

All the doubting Thomases are always westernized in their readings and thinkings. I have seen no exception.

 · Reply · 1y

Kavya Ecofeminist

I feel that you are seeing things just in binary. There is beauty and purpose in diversity, exceptions and evolving consciousness

 · Reply · 1y

Aparna Krishnan

The Indian with his roots intact, and not destroyed by modern over education is religous. In the simple sense of the word religion. Its a simple statement.

 · Reply · 1y

Paromita Goswami

Mr. Subramanyam Swamy the overeducated but thoroughly rooted Indian...has just declared he cannot be a chowkidar because he is caste Brahmin.

 · Reply · 1y

Aparna Krishnan

Mine is a simple statement. I will stop here. Namaskaram.

 · Reply · 1y

Paromita Goswami

Ha ha

 · Reply · 1y

Surya Mantha

I am truly puzzled by your disdain for education and intellectual sophistication (as opposed to sophistry). After all, Adi Sankara was no mere rustic

Reply · 1y

Aparna Krishnan

The farmer, 'illiterate' has the wisdom of the ages in his blood. Try growing a crop !

Yes, intellectual sophistication has a place. Weaveing an elaborate saree has an equal place.

That the former is considered superior is what I am challeneging. Though my own privilege rests on that notion.

Jivatman Paramatman Aikatyam - Oneness of man and god. The end of the Bhagavad Gita.

Where does the divide of atheism and theism exist in such a philisophy.

Aparna Krishnan

As time goes by, my feeling is that there are fewer differences between people than we would like to think. The problem is in words used, and the differing meanings of those very words that people have in the unknowable depths of their minds.

• Sunny Narang

  Prakriti and Purush. The interplay of the visible and the invisible. The word and its meaning embedded in it. One doesn't exist without the other and their dance together is Satyam Shivam Sundaram . Sat Chid Ananda. Jagriti Sushupti Svapna Turiya. Bindu Beej Nada . Sthool Sooksham Para. We have never needed a God to know Bliss. But to experience Bliss we have to go via Nature. And beyond Bliss is the Chaitanya. It is meant for the blessed. And they need to prove nothing to anyone. Even if they are alone on a whole planet.

  

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    Aparna Krishnan

    So Ishwara is Creation and the Laws of Creation itself. And the cause of these. My wondering is how atheism fits into this all encompassing theory ?

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    Aparna Krishnan

    Did India have a line of atheism ? And were there rigourous debates between the two streams ? Or were the Charvaks effectively just hedonists, and not part of a rigourous framework ?

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• Sunny Narang

  Atheism is denial of human to accept any greater force. Nature belief or as Einstein says science itself is a path to uncovering the mysteries . To accept that there are unknowable realities is itself an acceptance of human inability to know all. Our tools and languages are all limited. Atheism is one of the most arrogant human conceptions. Its man thumb at eternity. A Peter Pan reaction and not a response to the invisible infinity and magic of creation. I waste no time with them.

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    Aparna Krishnan

    Naren who was by far the most humane and humble (in the sense that his sense of self was not there, and only other concerns were ...), was atheistic in his own terming. Maybe that is again the trap of words - because what another feels and means the other can never fully know.

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    Aparna Krishnan

    A typical atheist prides himself on his superior intellect, and looks on believers are rather superstitious. That could be because in modern times Science is God, and what cannot be 'scientifically proven' is 'superstition'. A true religiosity (i am not interested in dicussing perversions as they exist in every system - and need periodic correction) brings a deep humility. Apart from an ability to share (as one leves the tomorrow on God's will) - this i say from my observations in my village.

    

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    Aparna Krishnan

    Ordinary people of this country are deeply (if sometimes very simply, in the sense of an anthill being Nagamma, and the river being Gangamma ) religious. Ethics are not a cold moral science, but a throbbing pulsing Dharmam. And unless that is incorporated into our own thinking and understanding I fear that our very understanding will stay lopsided.

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• Sunny Narang

  Aparna we always knew experience is beyond sabd-yuddh. There are thousands of debates between all sects. Buddhism or Jainism also do not need a God. Its no big deal.

  

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• Sunny Narang

  Bindu beej nada are the three principles of the shakt. The conception the seed and the flow river of manifestation.

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• Sunny Narang

  Just Google these three words together. Its equivalent to Aum which is the four states of being. Loads of information .

  

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• Sunny Narang

  Aparna he had the great luck of being in the sangat of an absolute theist and absorbing the bliss via him. As a sadhak you know ultimately all language is like toilet paper. You use it to wipe already digested experience.

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  Aparna Krishnan

  I think he was, without articulaing it as such, at the peak of Karma Yoga, and with no sense of Self able to work incessently and with no rancour or disappointment ever. That takes one on the Path also. I think when people (including him) get into terming themselves as theists or a-theists they do so without absorbing the vastness and all encompassing nature of indian philosophy and godhood.

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  Aparna Krishnan

  But my doubt is - was there a clear stream of atheism in sich an all encompassing philosophy. I do not know enough.

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• Sunny Narang

  Many atheists believe in ET's 

  

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• Sunny Narang

  Its a statistical impossibility they say that with so many millions of planets there will be no other life form in the cosmos. So not Nature but Outer Space is their hope !

  

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• H. Gopalakrishna Gadiyar

  What has to be eliminated is economists and social scientists .They cause everybody to worry about wrong issues.

JetuSne 16, 2etpS0tmSi1lolnifsom6eredu  · 

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I cannot imagine an atheist village. So I cannot imagine an atheist India,. My village sees divinity in rivers and trees and anthills and tortoises and stones and bricks and idols and temples.

 

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  Jagannath Chatterjee

  Spirituality is the soul of India. This land exists for people to undertake the spiritual quest. There will soon be an intense churning. The Country will return to its role in the world.

  

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  • Vigneshwaran RK

    What is spirituality?!. No other word is so variedly defined as this is!.

    

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• Manidhar Gudavalli

  Seeing divinity in nature, in rivers and trees and anthills and in animals is different from worshiping idols or in temples/churches/majids. There are no theist villages either. It is always mixed.

  

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  Aparna Krishnan

  This division is artificial. My village people worship the whole range, as they see god in the tortoise as also in tirumala. The intellectuals sit and say animistic, and temple.

  

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  • Mohanakrishnan Gopalakrishnan

    Yes, seeing divinity in nature has been the root of all other more evolved forms of worship.

    

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    Aparna Krishnan

    But it form a continuim. Intellectuals divide into local and organized. People see it more simply.