Saturday, 18 June 2016

FB Discussions - Caste and Reservations

Ganesh Krishnamurthy I am going to get beaten up on this thread for saying this. I disagree. India should throw away caste based reservation and provide education/jobs/support based on total annual income of the family (poverty level). Castes are a religious categorization that do not belong in this century. (I am a so called FC who has been a victim of caste-based reservation in education).
Lakshman Kumar India will throw away the reservation when Indians throw away caste pride..... And reservation has hardly 60 years age and you being it's victim, you should empathise for those victims of a pro long aged casteism..... PS : I happen to be born on OC community
Ganesh Krishnamurthy Lakshman, I would be delighted if Indians throw away castes and religions too. Sadly, that is not going to happen soon.
Lakshman Kumar Then, reservation will continue to be in it's current form benefiting more underprivileged....
Ganesh Krishnamurthy Not necessarily, religion/caste are personal choices and reservation is a government mandate. Government can pass a law and change reservation to be based on poverty levels. Isn't it ironic that someone can switch to being Christian/Muslim and suddenly benefit from a better probability of getting an engineering/medical seat? There is something fundamentally wrong with that logic. Plus, some folks cannot complain about being oppressed when OTOH they benefit from caste-based reservation. Do away with castes and everyone is on a level-playing ground.
Ganesh Krishnamurthy I am an atheist now (no religion and so no caste). I am not sure which category Government slots me under. I guess still an FC. The politicians are the winners here with their divide-and-rule mentality and caste/religion-based politics.
Lakshman Kumar Being sitting in an higher hierarchial social status, it's very easy for both of us to become atheists in a ziffy and rub things aside saying that it's personal choice... But trust me, There are people who doesn't have a say on their personal choices. ... Someone who gets continuously humiliated in the name of caste is definitely not his personal choice..... I have a privilege to enter into a sanctum sanctorium in the Temple of Vishnu not because of my Bhakthi not because of so called merit but just because of my birth and I can disagree to enter it on my conscience and call it as my personal choice because it will not alter my life, but a manual scavenger, a house maid, a sanitation worker cannot disagree or stop himself doing manual scavenging, stop herself going into a home which treats her unhygienic, stop himself against atrocities performed on him, because he don't have a personal choice their - it's their bread.... I still have people families who are still longing for a decent treatment in schools, temples, household - yes, they don't complain because they want to have their bread without any hussle...... There are differences on quoting what are our personal choices Buddy..... And I'm sure societies treatment to these people and their tolerance of that over years are definitely not their personal choice...
 Ganesh Krishnamurthy So, what is the solution then? Clinging onto caste-based reservation is not going to change societal behavior toward lower-caste people. When I visit India, I campaign for house-maids to be paid minimum wage. When I do that, people look at me like I am crazy.
Lakshman Kumar It will..... Reservation not only brings them into power, it also eradicates the social gap.... There will be more doctors, more engineers, more civil service officers, more police officers, more politicians and more priests and the caste blend among t
Lakshman Kumar Ganesh - For people, change is always a crazy thing and they will do all the resistance to get rid of that.... But, as you would know change is slow but powerful.....
Ganesh Krishnamurthy Lakshman, you have given me some food for thought. Let me chew on that...thanks for your insight.
Ganesh Krishnamurthy That is my point, reservation is not helping those who actually need it.
Lakshman Kumar And the solution is not being abolishing it but improvising it..... We don't fire our house to get rid of bed bugs, do we?

Aparna Krishnan A SC poor faces vey different stresses and pressures from a Naidu poor. You need to step out of the city Ganesh, and into villages, to understand India. Otherwise like many Tamil brahmins in my friends and family circle, you will feel 'disadvantaged' by the TN reservation policies, and also give that as a reason for having had to quit India !!

Ananda Ganesh The Indian reservation system is not American affirmative action. The very purpose of it to NOT to give opportunity to many of the people by having very limited seats. You might have heard about Jats doing violence for the reservation. Many do not know that the Srilankan conflict started because of the reservation conflicts. The colonial reservation system is meant to pamper those castes, to which the British wanted to give more power. The worst affected group because of this reservation policy is the harijans. 

Ananda Ganesh Are you aware that the reservation in private sectors is sought only for OBCs and MBCs and not for harijans? 

Narayana Sarma Well, let them okey it for two groups- later it can get extended to others.

Rama Subramanian 
Recently there has been a debate on reservations in the private sector. Is this a good idea? Then what happens to merit? 
In fact, it is required because the public economy is shrinking. We talk about reservations already being there in the public sector but we know that government jobs are being slashed, the public economy is shrinking. With privatisation and disinvestment, employment on the basis of reservations only in the public sector is over and out. Given this, private enterprise should make up for this erosion in public sector jobs by being brought under the ambit of the reservation policy. About merit,  here’s a typical social Darwinist argument – that potentially the OBCs and SC/STs do not have merit; it’s just the high castes who have it.
 Rama Subramaniam private sector or public sector, we don't have a code for ethical business in India. the social obligation felt by the private sector is limited to placatory gestures to mask their destructive and damaging practices busy as they are in profit maximization. unless the profit is not affected, they will be least interested or inclined to adhere to any reservation. regulation mode will not work as they will figure out a way to wriggle out of regulations similar to environmental regulations. we need to have larger debates on ethics of doing business in India and ethics in business practices,however, it is not the priority of any one just now. some years back there was heavy resistance when this idea was being openly discussed

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