Monday, 20 June 2016

FB Discussions - Loss of Roots

Why are the Indians, especically the educated Hindus, ashamed of their identity. I have always admired the Muslims for standing by the symbols of their religion and practices without defensiveness.
Ajay Balachandran
... as a person who worked in MNC for years, I could see the moral decline of Hindu values among the youth, I have seen for years how Hindus used to wipe out the religious Marks of sandal wood paste and Kumkum on foreheads before entering the office, those were seen as a stigma on the corporate life but I have seen Muslims wearing their religious caps, women burkha clad, some praying five times, all of them fasting and occasionally going out to spit 

Renuka Shah Influence of Dravidian politics... And too much of westernisation !!
Aparna Krishnan Komakkambedu Himakiran Anugula, does the Dravidian movement contribute to this ? Indians feeling ashamed of Indian ways, will also mean their looking down on ordinary people who exist in indian ways ?
Komakkambedu Himakiran Anugula Dravidian movement took on the Vedic religion and oppression of the caste system.
Karthikeya Sivasenapathy Dravidian movement was never against God only few leaders but was against cultural nationalism propogated by right wing ideology ... Dravidian parties were against Ramayana but Not against family deity kula deivam, Muruga or maruaman or karuparayan etc
Aparna Krishnan That is also a limited understanding. Because in my village (an SC village) the Bharatam is the anchor of culture. That is the Mahabharatam, and therefore Krishna is revered as Krishnamurthy. To revile Gods like rama and Krishna and to celebrate gods like Gangamma does not fit into a true village understanding.
Komakkambedu Himakiran Anugula Haha, Dravidian movement has nothing to do with "Hindus" shunning prayers and religious paraphernalia. 

We are more rooted than the completely westernised crowd. We are open to taking good things from the west but not at the cost of our own values.

Komakkambedu Himakiran Anugula If you look at the ones who shun wearing their religion on their sleeve it's mostly people who hate Dravidian movement too!
Aparna Krishnan I see. If those in the movement are atheists, do they look down on theists ? That is one problem I have with atheism. Very often its not just a personal position, but often carries with it a baggage of superiority over the ordinary people (like my village people !) who are religious. The superiority of being more scientific and rational. Yes, I understand that its the westernized crowd that is the primary problem.
Komakkambedu Himakiran Anugula Not really, there is no moral superiority, but friendly nagging!
Aparna Krishnan Here maybe. In general today 'science' and 'modernity' is the superiormost religion. And therefore the religious are seen as mildly superstitious !! I have walked all those roads and I know that from myself, and also from the circles i have been part of ...
Komakkambedu Himakiran Anugula Science and Religion are played against each other just like the Middle Ages in Europe. 
But here scientific pursuit was founded in religious and spiritual thinking.

Aparna Krishnan 'here' being the Dravidian movement ?
Komakkambedu Himakiran Anugula Here being all our lands.
Aparna Krishnan yes. but not the modern, scientific, western educated indian. they have bought the western dichotomy of science and religion wholesale. it is that atheist i am speaking of.
Komakkambedu Himakiran Anugula I must warn you though, there is a lot of Dravidian literature that was/is virulently atheist.
Aparna Krishnan i actually have to yet see an atheist from the local, vernacular, indian people ! every village in rooted in religion in a myriad different ways. only after long years in a village did i even understand this. in my initial years i went raving against t...See More
Komakkambedu Himakiran Anugula It's virulently anti centralized religion aka Vedic or Hindutva. Never had a problem with the Ammans or Murugans
Aparna Krishnan That is another point I have mentioned before. The village people in their deep self assurance, as opposed to a certian insecurity of the educated indian, are able to incorporate everything - balaji and vinayaka to gangamma and munishwarudu - seamless...See More
Aparna Krishnan History needs to be faced, understood, debated, and then the present dealt with based on the past omissions and commissions. And then one needs to accept that a part of it is really History !
Komakkambedu Himakiran Anugula If you talk to any Dravidian movement supporter, they'll be ready to debate but Hindutva types will dismiss dissent.
Aparna Krishnan Yes, it does seem like that. I would not have been allowed to sustain such a conversation in a Hindutva forum !
Komakkambedu Himakiran Anugula Just post on Aryans and Dravidians and see the reactions!
Komakkambedu Himakiran Anugula Read the book Asura; it depicts Dravidians aka Asuras as argumentative, that much is true!
Aparna Krishnan In another thread I was just told 'What kind of an indian are you' by a rank stranger !, when I just mentioned that I do not support Modi, but support Indianness.
Aparna Krishnan I quit that thread after that one comment. one needs to know when discretion is the better part of valour.
Siva Vats Do other religions have ashramas? Rituals change in each ashrama. In sanyasaashrama all the rituals are given up. Not all grahastas take up even vaanaprsthaashrama let alone sannyasa. In ashrama of Macaulay's indian schools and subordinate services und...See More
Naveen Manikandan Periasamy Beg to disagree Aparna Krishnan. I would say that the westernized crowd is slightly better and amenable to reason than those muslims who have completely taken to the regressive Arab way of life. Before a decade or two Indian Muslims, while remaining staunch believers in their Islamic faith, adopted the indian cultural expressions like the Bindhi and Sari, but today they have been brainwashed to wear the Burqa and follow a more radicalized Wahabbi/Salafi brand of Islam. I don't see why adopting one foreign culture(western) is inferior to adopting another culture(Arab/Islamic). Infact, the latter is much more dangerous than the former. I think one should look at these things dispassionately, rather than trying to be politically correct.
Aparna Krishnan I find the Muslim closer to us that the westerner ! I have no need to be correct to anyone except myself smile emoticon
Naveen Manikandan Periasamy Yes, the Dargha going muslims and many Keralite muslims are well integrated. But, that is changing fast with Saudi oil money inflow. If you think that the hardline, fundamentalist muslims, like the 'shirk abolition' conference organizers in TN are closer to us, you couldn't be more wrong.

Aparna Krishnan so we will question them also. But westernization creates such a disdain for things indian, that i want none of that.

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