Monday, 26 September 2016

FB Discussions - Id Sacrifices and KFC.

Yes, why more outrage over Id killings, and none before KFCs.

Anjana Balasubramanian Sometimes, the festive killings happen in public spaces and there may be blood stains for some days and sometimes, flesh or bone fragments. If you are living in the same street, you will hear their bleatings. The blood letting in halal killings prolongs the agony of the animal. When I was young in Delhi, I would walk past goats tethered to lamp posts, getting fattened day by day. On the day of slaughter, death rules over the mohalla

Shafi Patel Right. Sacrifice is NOT supposed to be in a public place. What you saw and smelt probably has its roots in shortage of space. I mentioned an edict from Hadeeth. The animal is to be treated with dignity.

Anjana Balasubramanian What is ok and not ok about killing animals for food in our time - there are so many options available. What is ok or not ok about ritual killings of animals? We have not always gone by 'the' book in all matters of religious teachings. Yes I do believe that meat consumption will be considerably less if we had to kill and quarter the animals we raise. Yes it is a lot easier to have flesh served as food. What we directly experience has a greater impact on our feelings

Shafi Patel As you pointed out diplomatically,much is involved. Much that doesnt meet the eye. If you read the yearwise statistics of our beef exports,you will begin to understand. If you unearth names of people financing beef exports,you will be shocked.

Komakkambedu Himakiran Anugula The biggest meat exporter and industrial slaughter house is managed by practicing Jains. Do the people who sermonize about meat eating of the masses have the wherewithal to take them on?

Komakkambedu Himakiran Anugula The masses are meat eaters and animal sacrifice as well as slaughter have been taking place in public places only. Why should a minority complain about that? The vegetarians of the villages never complained, it's the city elite sitting on top of the spoils of destroyed villages and forests who preach.

Anjana Balasubramanian The kind of spatial segregation that characterizes villages is then quite understandable. In cities often such segregation is not possible.. I don' t know how willing poor Muslims are to witness the killing and consumption of pork.  Sorry for the preaching Komakkkambedu Himakiran Anugula; you are not above preaching yourself (however 'pristine' your causes)' By the way, I am not quite so 'pristine' myself. I have cooked, served and eaten flesh (no , I have not cannibalized 

Komakkambedu Himakiran Anugula Spatial segregation is well practiced in the cities. Try getting a house for a Muslim or a meat eater in Mylapore.

Muslims don't eat pork but have never asked the ones who eat to desist. That's the acceptance that is missing with the elite today.

Cannibalisation? Is that your term for killing animals? Sorry, using sensationalist words will not make it any different.

Komakkambedu Himakiran Anugula Meat eaters asking vegetarians to eat meat is preaching. Does that happen?

Aparna Krishnan The practice is turning the spotlight within seems all but dead. To go checking out flaws in the practices of others is the easiest occupation. The rot begins there. When those living in the west, with inbuilt lifestyles that devastate, moralise to us, all non-violent thoughts start sying a slow death. Our own elite are not far behind !

Shafi Patel Plants, too,have life and feelings. An egg is life. Both are food items. How do you feel about consuming these?

Anjana Balasubramanian My landlady in Mylapur/Thirumayilai cooked meat and fed my son when he visited. There are elites and diseranchised in every category. I of course consider some of humanity 'elite' (with an aura)IN your category. Be that as it may. K. H. Anugula, I referred to meat as flesh and so used the 'cannibalistic' reference. Calm down. Why should a minority complain' - Mr Anugula, 'to complain' is a special right conferred on minorities In India; let's not make exceptions

Anjana Balasubramanian Those living in India will benefit from turning the spotlight within and without and at the world and indeed, the universe. And so on and so forth. I carry an Indian passport and that is my sole nationality. However, just as you have the right to critique Western practices, they too, have a right to pontificate on the ills of the rest of the world. Nothing is as powerful as a cache of moral certainties and I don't even aspire to those dazzling treasures

Aparna Krishnan our nationality is determined by how much we do for the country. no scrap of paper, and no erudite discussions mean anything. the discussions, if they do not fructify in action are a waste of valuable time actually.

Komakkambedu Himakiran Anugula Answer this question

Meat eaters asking vegetarians to eat meat is preaching. Does that happen?
Anjana Balasubramanian When I lived in Delhi, I used yo walk past the goats that were getting fattened day after day. An atmosphere of slaughter envelops certain areas of the city.

Aparna Krishnan if it happens behind closed doors, as in KFC, its OK ?  

Komakkambedu Himakiran Anugula Aparna, None of the compassionate souls will ever take on any corporate as their primary source of income is dependent on the same corporates.

The animal rights militants are mercenaries of the corporate food, meat, dairy and pharma industries either wittingly or unwittingly. They will only target the sustainable meat aka food production, distribution and consumption practices of the masses so that everyone will be dependent on their masters for food soon.
Aparna Krishnan Yes, that will be the result. And I think they do not even see this.

Mahima Thangappan Most of animal rights people raise their voices only to what is projected to them, as they dont go down right under into all the caves where reality happens. The media does not show what the corporates do, and hence this silence. I have seen all the people who are compassionate give up cruelty products, but that limits to only the ones, which media writes about. Obviously media will not write about the big shots, as they run in their money. A balanced approach will come, only when they start to mingle with people who raise farm animals. I have interacted with people who raise cattle and butchers and learnt how balanced the traditional practices were as against the modern industrialized practices

Aparna Krishnan If people want to live in their ivory castles and then outrage, their outrages will be similarly fit for ivory towers. Like people in A/Ced houses turning vegan. Their A/c lifestyle kills far more animals than their veganism will protect !!

Gyan Mitra Criticism which is intelligent is about humble observations on reality. But be aware that there can be something beyond what is obvious to you. Challenging rituals without knowing the theory is like examining a student in GERMAN studies in GERMAN language but you know only ENGLISH. Much of the discussion today is manipulated by OPINION MAKERS with their own agenda ( else others ). ' TRUTH ' can be manufactured, but REALITY is factual. The design of all religious rituals has great logic. Its just that the theory is not taught. Many cultural practices are about toxicity management, without which quality living in communities is impossible. All ecological systems need feedback to correct toxicity. The timing of the event is also logical. Just as doctors ask you to take a blood test to evaluate what is wrong with you. Ecological systems too do blood analysis. HALAL when done correctly is the least traumatic way to take the life of an animal. To an observer, the spurting of blood may seem frightening but the cut is not really painful if done skillfully and correctly and with the falling of blood pressure to the brain, the animal becomes unconscious very very soon. ( However, I have seen poor practices which make it traumatic for the animal, and this can be corrected with education only ) I would like to clarify here that I am only sharing technical findings. I restrain myself from judgement because I am too small a person with limited knowledge and experience. In 1996, when tigers were being killed by poachers and Rhinos for their horns, to make medicines, I understood that CHINA had animal medicine because Nature was not verdant there ( We had Ayurveda = Plant medicine ) And HOMEOPATHY worked with an entirely different logic. Those of you who want animal 'sacrifice' to stop need to present a better model, which achieves the purpose of the animal 'sacrifice' in a superior manner. When you say, " Don't spit on the walls and cornets", you have to give an easy option on where to spit. I see little concern expressed about man made chemicals which silently kill insects, fish, animals, birds and human beings in millions. They die in terrible pain and agony, far far far worse than a HALAL 'sacrifice'. It helps to draw back and take a long view to see things in a better perspective, from the point of view of Mother Nature herself ( your mother and mine ).

Anjana Balasubramanian Gyan Mitra, thanks for making the effort to explain your point of view. I did speak from the 'reality' of my experience. Ours is a society of vegetarians and meat eaters; There are elites and poor people in both these categories. There are people who may not consume beef and those who will not consume pork and some who will consume both.. just for my own clarification.

Gyan Mitra About those who oppose eating of meat, there needs to be clarity about it. One reason is sensitivity of horrible experience of farm raised animals and birds, enough secret videos on Youtube. Another is about the pain they experience when 'slaughtered' carelessly. One Indian meat exporting company takes the hide off the cows when they are still alive and their stomachs are pumped up with air and other very strange processes which will disturb so I will not elaborate. The number of PIGS in HOLLAND exceed the human population. The pig cannot move being locked in a cage. There are enough activists to pursue these issues and as a technology educator, this is not my role. My concern is bio-accumulation of man made chemical toxicity which is challenging the health and happiness of millions. Endocrine disruptors work even in parts per billion and creating havoc in society, and robbing us of a delightful experience this life was supposed to be for everyone. Thanks for your clarification. 

Gyan Mitra O.K. It is tragic to see images of elephants who have their tucks cut or simply yanked off when they are living, then spend many hours bleeding in pain till they die. No protests from INDIA. A Kenyan opinion maker was hoping for support from INDIA who honour an elephant GOD which is why I also traveled to KOLHAPUR.

Dileep Krishnan Activism for animal welfare has been going on for quite a long time now - whether it be against KFCs, McD etc or even against animal sacrifices in other religions. This outrage did not start just two days back. The only problem is most liberal people have a problem only when the so-called minorities are questioned!

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