Saturday, 26 November 2016

The pointlessness of degrees - 1

If an 8th pass or a 12th pass is a minister, the educated hoot. Why ?

I would think that a grounding and exposure as a farmer or an artisan, and a functional literacy, and a commitment, need to be the essentials for leadership for this country.

Those grown up in affluence and in public schools, and schooled in intricacies of fourier transforms or management theories are deeply alienated from the people. If they desire, they may be clerks to the actual leaders who need to be from the people. Literate, and preferably most rooted in the local language.

More education only bestows more snobbery, and ensures a deep divide from the people. Yes, a very few transcend that handicap.
Chitra Sharan Ex CM Thiru Kamaraj is a standing example of how education just does not matter to be a leader. Heart in the right place and plenty of common sense is what is needed. Education most often than not gives complicated sense to people than common sense.
Kiran Bindu Pls take some medicines to extract the CPI and CMP out of u . Ur views sometimes are unreasonable at best and unreasonable at worse .
Aparna Krishnan My understandings are from my village. Gandhism, Marxism, and every other ism insofar as it is rooted in that reality, and addresses the needs therein is of value to me. The deep common sense and rootedness of the ordinary Indian I would stand by anyday.
Ekta Agarwal Aparna, you are mixing two very different concerns here. These 9th and 12th pass were educated in the most elite schools in the country and chose to idle their life. One of them was also in IPL, and also accused/convicted of eve teasing. Their parents, both were former CMs. They both have income declarations running into crores. If they were a farmer or an artisan, they would have been welcomed, but do you seriously think they deserve it? It is just dynasty politics at play, eligibility just doesn't have a chance. They have an elder sister who is a doctor, another sibling is an engineer, so on , so forth. They chose to do nothing, and now their Dad decided they are fit for politics. Please just do not go by 9thPass slogan, there is much more underneath it.
Aparna Krishnan Exactly. So question that ! Lets not drag in the bogey of formal schooling.
Aparna Krishnan And a potter or farmer would never have been welcomed. The elite would have been hooting at his accent and dress. We are more deeply snobbish than we knoe. There are layers and layers of conditioning to deal with.
Aparna Krishnan Yes, this is not an appropriate peg, but it served as a peg and I used it :).
Rajesh Pandey I ageee with Aparna Krishnan that Education has the danger of bringing with it a closed mind. But, in this case the persons we are talking about are already in possession of closed minds which dynastic elitism brings. To compare them with Kamraj is gross blasphemy :)
Komakkambedu Himakiran Anugula Kamarajar, case dismissed!
Komakkambedu Himakiran Anugula Uneducated himself but ensured maximum govt schools were built and educated millions, who are the ones who made TN the best state in any socioeconomic parameter.
Aparna Krishnan I thought you said you dismissed Kamarajar !!
Komakkambedu Himakiran Anugula No, haha I dismissed the case against uneducated people in politics!
Naveen Manikandan Periasamy No one would have hooted if a Kamarajar had been given a top post, but we are not talking about Kamarajar here. Tejaswi Yadav has no credentials - be it academics, social activism or even moderate achievements in any field of choosing.
Komakkambedu Himakiran Anugula Academics, Social activism would be nice things to have, but this notion that someone not educated won't deliver reeks of class bias. People who defended Smriti Irani are criticising Tejaswi. Ironical!
Naveen Manikandan Periasamy I agree with you that one should not be criticized solely for his/her educational standing viz a viz degrees. But, let us not get too carried away with unrestrained ideas about egalitarianism. A finance minister has to be erudite in modern economics. Smriti Irani in that sense is not a ideal choice for education minister, but she can definitely articulate her opinions(language is immaterial) clearly, unlike the person in question.
Komakkambedu Himakiran Anugula This is not egalitarianism, but grounding. For the past 25 years we've had world bank grade FMs and economists ruining India. Might as well have someone who understands village and local economics.

Tejaswi himself said, dot judge a book by it's cover. Isn't that enough articulation in an elite friendly language?
Naveen Manikandan Periasamy //Tejaswi himself said, dot judge a book by it's cover. Isn't that enough articulation in an elite friendly language?// I'm sure you don't really take this one liner self-appraisal as a definite indicator of his 'hidden potential'. Reasonable judgements can be made about a person's capability based on a his past history and track record. I'm afraid there is no redeeming features in Tejaswi Yadav - none at all! Or Lallo.
Komakkambedu Himakiran Anugula Well, looks like you've already made up your mind.
Komakkambedu Himakiran Anugula Inspire winning the highest seats, he with his brilliant political mind made Nitish the CM.

Modi with his corporate/upper caste backing had to concede defeat to Laloo.
Naveen Manikandan Periasamy Let's keep our minds open, but not too open to allow garbage inside it! ஐந்தில் வளையாதது ஐம்பதில் வளையாது
Rajesh Pandey Agreed, those who had defended Smriti Irani have no right to question the 9th fail Dy. CM. But, others have, since he owes his chair to dynastic succession alone.
Komakkambedu Himakiran Anugula Haha, dynastic? Name one field in India except agriculture, livestock keeping, fisheries and artisan work where there is no dynastic policies?

When Rohan Murthy can be accepted in Infosys, I'll accept Tejaswi as a minister in Bihar. He's privy to one of the most brilliant political minds of India.
Naveen Manikandan Periasamy Right! I'm sure Bihar has benefited immensely from the enterprise and wisdom of this most brilliant political mind ,Lallu Yadav.
Komakkambedu Himakiran Anugula Ask the oppressed people over there. Just because the upper caste filled corporate owned media portrays him as bad, we don't have to believe it.

He is not good or bad, he's just political.
Naveen Manikandan Periasamy Yes, The perception that Fodder scam is an actual scam is essentially perpetuated by the upper class mentality, whereas Lalloo was just being political.
Komakkambedu Himakiran Anugula Let the law take its course. We are not debating the scam or his part in it. I just said he has a great political mind which is a perceptive issue.
Naveen Manikandan Periasamy That political mind would benefit the masses if it comes out with ideas on governance, like Nitish Kumar does.
Komakkambedu Himakiran Anugula Well, he's used that to back Nitish, so why do you complain?

Meanwhile the brilliant mind of Modi & Shah put up posters of cows in the 5th phase of the Bihat elections held in 4 eastern Bihar districts with high Muslim population. Muslim radical Owaisi also put his best efforts in that phase, both got the rightful thrashing by our politically savvy RURAL Bihar folks.
Rajesh Pandey Komalkambedu Himakiran Anu ji, if dynastic succession is acceptable to you, then I have nothing to say. We agree to disagree.
Komakkambedu Himakiran Anugula Well, if you accept it in other fields, why not on politics? It's not like they are made MLAs or MPs, they still stand the electoral test.
Naveen Manikandan Periasamy Granted, Lallo is cute and charming and hence he stands above 'upper class' criticism.
Komakkambedu Himakiran Anugula No the whole portrayal of him as a rural duffer is by the upper caste media and so called intellectuals and he plays to the galleries. He's a student leader from the JP movement. Most people don't know that.
Naveen Manikandan Periasamy One can be rural and uneducated and still maintain a dignified demeanor Komakkambedu Himakiran Anugula On the other hand one can be highly educated and still be a buffoon if we go by the example of the GOP.
Komakkambedu Himakiran Anugula What's your point? Who do you support?
Komakkambedu Himakiran Anugula "Rural and uneducated and still maintain a dignified demeanour"

Haha, that's exactly the classist bias I mentioned.
Naveen Manikandan Periasamy
Naveen Manikandan Periasamy Class, bourgeois, et all..We all know which school of thought prompts such misguided talk.
Komakkambedu Himakiran Anugula Haha, spoken like a true blue Nagpurite!

I hate Left as much as I hate the right!
Naveen Manikandan Periasamy That does not automatically make you a centrist. Taking words out of context and assuming a high moral ground by claiming to be above the so called 'class biases' as you put it, doesn't make your opinion sound any more reasonable than a leftist. You started the ad-hominem salvo, not me. :-)
Komakkambedu Himakiran Anugula Ad-hominen? What does that mean?
Naveen Manikandan Periasamy Attacking a person's character rather than rebutting/ dealing with the points raised. Essentially what the 'class bias' type arguments lead to.
Komakkambedu Himakiran Anugula Well, what do you say to someone who goes after someone's education credentials?

Did you do the same when Smriti Irani became HRD minister?
Naveen Manikandan Periasamy Already talked about Smriti Irani in this thread. Invalid comparison.
Komakkambedu Himakiran Anugula So is your egalitarian argument
Naveen Manikandan Periasamy Without mincing words, I have to say that anyone who supports politicians like Lalloo with misguided notions like 'class bias', 'corruption is better than communalism', 'goonda raj is better than riots', 'he represents the poor and lower classes', 'he ...See more
Komakkambedu Himakiran Anugula Haha, BJP is upper caste politics!
Komakkambedu Himakiran Anugula If they were so progressive why did put up cow posters?
Komakkambedu Himakiran Anugula Anyone accusing politicians of caste politics needs to look at the parties they support. They will inevidently be upper caste!
Naveen Manikandan Periasamy Where did I support BJP here? In fact I tend to agree more and more with Markhanday Katju that every politician is deeply corrupt and the system needs a complete overhaul. It would be infinitely more acceptable to celebrate Nitish's or more broadly the...See more
Komakkambedu Himakiran Anugula Haha, Nitish is not pandering to caste? Heard of Mahadalits?
Naveen Manikandan Periasamy For that, he did get a stab on his back from Jitan Ram Manjhi :-)
Komakkambedu Himakiran Anugula That's irrelevant here, you said Nitish, and I've proved he also panders to caste.
Naveen Manikandan Periasamy He can actually get some work done on the ground and personally is not corrupt.
Rajesh Pandey Laloo remains a convict till date.
Komakkambedu Himakiran Anugula He didn't stand in the elections, did he? This thread is about Tejaswi
Aparna Krishnan We have had plenty of white collared white-men-in-brown-skins running the show, with sheer disdain for the illiterate masses. Believeing that the road to development can be lined with dreams and bodies of the illiterate masses. And then when they are m...See more
Alladi Mahadevan Aparna Krishnan neither it is global the educated have gone nuts or the uneducated have gone nuts. Boils down to the actual attitude of people towards people na
Aparna Krishnan No. Education. modern education, carries a huge baggage. It alienates, makes supercilious, and teaches disdain. We need people rooted in indian ways (yes, that means 'less educated' !) taking charge. Give them a chance !
Aparna Krishnan Gracefully ! See the hooting going on when they get on board.
Alladi Mahadevan O Aparna Krishnan more people are looking at the pitfalls their education has given them :)
Aparna Krishnan I am worried about the pitfalls it has given the 'uneducated' !!
Alladi Mahadevan ya no doubt but either way we cannot be sure. We have seen the educated and uneducated capitalising on the situation :)
Aparna Krishnan The 'uneducated' are rooted. The 'educated' are alienated and condescending. Even if all else was considered even (which I dont, but that we'll keep aside for now.). I will go for the rooted one.
Alladi Mahadevan Ya that is a choice but inspite of all circumstances you are speaking of both sides have capitalised on the situation. We cannot say this is right or wrong na :) Again more than saying whether to have the educated or uneducated would prefer something actually happening.
Alladi Mahadevan Btw the issue here Lalu and his family running Bihar. I would not support them with or without education :)
Rajesh Pandey A person convicted for corruption is not personally corrupt ? Sounds interesting !!!
Komakkambedu Himakiran Anugula Looks like you've got Laloomania! The point made by the person was about Nitish!
Rajesh Pandey The preceding comment mentioned Laloo. Hence my presumption.
Vidyasankar Sundaresan But these aren't any 8th and 12th pass children from anywhere in India, are they? They are dynastic heirs. Do they really represent a victory of the common man?
Aparna Krishnan These are bad examples. But do you think that if a 8th pass farmer were to rise, the educated elite could stomach it. they would be sure that he will drown the country, they would die of shame at his tamil-fluency and halting-english. Their deepest patriotic drives would come to the fore as they bewail the country's fate.
Aparna Krishnan Also if a very corrupt harvard educated politician's son (also harvard educated) were to inherit the mantle, it would cause less heartburn than here.
Rajesh Pandey The elite dynastic rulers have generally proved themselves poor leaders in post Independent India, with a few notable exceptions like Naveen Patnaik. The urbane children of Laloo are neither rooted to the ground nor are educated. May I dare say that education has some advantages too if one has compassion.
Rajesh Pandey India has had tall and respected leaders like Devi Lal who had delivered results for the rural population, despite lacking educational degrees. So, a genuine grassroots leader like Anna Hazare commands respect of the urban educated class and Laloo's sons fail to get the same, both not having educational degrees, notwithstanding. So, people have capability to differentiate, I believe.

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