Tuesday, 27 December 2016

Disrespect and Respect and Religions

There is a white lady who lives abroad mostly and claims that her heart beats for india. She is very popular on FB, and many Indians admire and follow her. I saw her post yesterday through another friend's comment. She posted a picture of Radha and Krishna in a state of undress, and is sniggering at Indians for being 'conservative' and reacting negatively. Would she have the guts to try that on Mohammed ?
Who allowed the white people to enter our space and mock our gods ? The state of poverty in our lands is because of over consumption in her land, and if she cared she can take that on.
Anyway, to set the record straight, many Educated Indians also post admiring comments on her progressiveness.
I quite understand why Hindutva is taking deeper and deeper roots in this country. The ordinary people revere their gods, and despite their ability to take a lot, will draw the line.


Dhanwyn Kishore Can u provide the link
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Aparna Krishnan Would like to avoid arguments and wasting my time with her defenders. So better not to. But this is a larger malaise among the Educated who have scant respect for the ordinary people and their ways and their gods. That is what we need to address.
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Dhanwyn Kishore We just neglect just like this.. so ppl like this are growing...
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Aparna Krishnan IIT Mumbai has posted a picture of Hanuman in jeans and with a cell phone. Simply utterly de-racinated. No sense of the beleifs of ordinary people. No respect for them.
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Indira Vijaysimha Xenophobia!
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Aparna Krishnan Educated Indians are xenophobic !!
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Paranthaman Sriramulu Like Talisma there would be reward for her head if she does similar thing to Mohammed.
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Meena Subramaniam Why do you call her white, why not just a foreign lady?
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Paranthaman Sriramulu White means European background. Foreign means anyone outside India.
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Aparna Krishnan The Whites as a race and the Educated indians as a community are the most condescending and most deriding. She concerns me less, that the Educated Indians who pass admiring comments on this. There was never a self-hating lot like these Coconuts.
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Kannan Thandapani Don't know who said what but you saying, 'Whites as a race'....highly objectionable generalisation.
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Aparna Krishnan They are the race that commited (and are commiting) the maximun genocides ! Anyway it was just a matter of saying. The thrust of the post is differenr Kannan Thandapani
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Paranthaman Sriramulu White is just a term for grouping. What has it to do with racism.
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Kannan Thandapani You make me think of 1984, 2001, 2009.
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Mark Johnston Kannan, as a person who is white (a peely wally Scot), I am well aware of the destruction imposed on our own lands, languages and cultures then spread around the globe by those (almost exclusively white men) following an arrogant, greedy and racist world view. Although there is, of course, a diversity of views and levels of awareness within predominantly white countries I take no objection from the term whites being used as a negative generalisation in this context.
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Kannan Thandapani Mark, I rest my case.
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Meena Subramaniam Colonialism was created by a ruling upper class, who happened to be "whites".. meanwhile I dont know if you referred to me as a coconut, I certainly am not..  
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Aparna Krishnan I never referred to you ! lol.
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Meena Subramaniam Aparna, lets not go down the road others are going down. We are a global community, of a species, thats intent on destruction. If we keep dividing ourselves, there really isnt much left then.
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Aparna Krishnan Yes, I have avery poor opinion of me and my community as our very education has alienated us from the people of this land. The deepest strengths are lost to us, and we can slowly start the trek back home, if we wish to.
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Aparna Krishnan We need to understand our roots if we are going to be able to engage fruitfully. We need to first understand that we have lost the roots - due to historical and cultural reasons.
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Meena Subramaniam We have lost our roots, the only roots are indigenous culture. The rest is mostly centuries of colonising them..
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Aparna Krishnan The villages have it. We need to learn to respect villages. This post was about that, incidentally.
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Zakeena Seethi You can confront or counter her view but the comparison with Muhammad was unnecessary. She may not post about Muhammad for the fear of backlash, but is that what you want hindu brethren to do too? Here we are trying to instill some sense into those violent mob who cry for blood at the slightest criticism of Islam, and your comparison works negatively, im afraid..
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Aparna Krishnan There is no right anyone has to mock and demean the gods of the people. Saraswathi or Mohammed. If they want 'freedom of speech' the whole universe is their canvas. These are just thinly veiled attempts of the White and the Educated to mock at common people,
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Zakeena Seethi They shouldnt mock out of respect for the followers, not out of fear...
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Aparna Krishnan Yes, goondas need to be locked in. But sooner or later my village people will demand blood of they see their Krishnamurthy (as they call Krishna) portrayed in this manner. Or their Gangamma or their Yerpachchamma.
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Aparna Krishnan If they lack respect and decency, people will beat them up !
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Zakeena Seethi They might, but we shouldnt talk as if it is desirable to beat them. Violence should be condemned
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Zakeena Seethi Being a muslim , I know how insulting it is to my religion when the muslim named ones turn to violence..
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Aparna Krishnan Yes, I will condemn the violence. But before that I would condemn these derogatory statements and behaviours !!
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Zakeena Seethi Pl do condemn derogatory comments. I condemn too... 
Vinutha Mallya To set the record straight. The painting itself is an 18th century work by the Pahadi miniature pioneer, Nainsukh. We can safely say that our country was far more liberal in 18th century than some forces intend for it to be now. Our mythology gives us our gods that we worship and also treat as real life people. We are not a theist order and need not adopt such thinking. There is no need to regress on the basis that someone else is suchlike. Our values need not be bound to any other denominator, and they are dynamic. There is no reason to justify Hindutva on this or any other basis. By the way, the alleged white lady in question is North African.
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Aparna Krishnan I go by the present. That is all I know. And understand. I know the pulse of india from a small village I have lived in for 20 years. Gods are revered. And unless there are wrong practices, i see no call to hurt them, and their feelings and throw mud on them.
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Aparna Krishnan I certianly object to a lady from abroad claiming that space. And certianly to irreligious Educated Indians donning that mantle.
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Aparna Krishnan A village deserves respect. Their feelings deserve respect. I rest my case.
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Vinutha Mallya The Rasas were very respectfully depicted by the 18th century village painters. Our gods had sex / made love. Our practices of worship include several metaphors and symbols of sex. We may now want to sanctify this and feel queasy, but it doesn't change the reality.
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Uma Shankari Who made Konarak , khajuraho sculptures? The Whites? the slokas and stotrams in praise of gods and goddesses make a ref. to their beautiful breasts and private parts. Since the the 'whole universe is their canvas' why can't she comment on Hindu gods?
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Naveen Manikandan Periasamy Uma Shankari The Khajuraho temple was built by Chandela Rajputs to wean away its citizens from taking to monastic buddhism. As for the obscene 'slokas' and 'strotrams' at the kodungallur bharani festival, the practice sprung up more recently and is resented by the locals. Without understanding the proper historical context some indians draw exaggerated inferences like indians were sexually promiscuous and 'liberated' in the past.
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Aparna Krishnan Because Uma I understand it will hurt the sentiments of simple beleivers. I see no need to. There are enough urgent battles to fight on the social front, if we wish to. There is the whole universe as a canvas if one wishes to have 'freedom of expression'. I would allow Eashwaramma and Lakshmamma their Krisnnamurthy and their Munishwarydu and their Balaji and Gangamma, I think that is civil behaviour.
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Aparna Krishnan Komakkambedu Himakiran Anugula, this is why I was glad to see a simple and respectful temple picture today morning !
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Uma Shankari You haven't seen the temple scuptures carefully. Any way who are you to keep policing and stricturing the whole world?
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Aparna Krishnan I am nobody Uma . Anyway, Khajuraho belonged to another time. I act from my present understanding. I know the village people will feel offended if their godesses are disrobed, and I am simply stateing my clear objection to that. I defend their right to their sensibilities.
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Paranthaman Sriramulu Are all temples like Khajuraho or Konarak ? Each place had its significance.
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Uma Shankari Sir, I don't know you, but I would like to tell you that all temples have erotic sculptures in some corner, even our tanjavur , madurai and such temples. This is because we celebrated eroticism as much as renunciation. Each in its place is right.
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Paranthaman Sriramulu Some corner means it is not main right. Definitely it was for learning and was part of life. However it was not centre.
Contrary to perception, the Kama Sutra is not exclusively a sex manual; it presents itself as a guide to a virtuous and gracious living that discusses the nature of love, family life and other aspects pertaining to pleasure oriented faculties of human life. Kama Sutra, in parts of the world, is presumed or depicted as a synonym for creative sexual positions; in reality, only 20% of Kama Sutra is about sexual positions. The majority of the book, notes Jacob Levy, is about the philosophy and theory of love, what triggers desire, what sustains it, how and when it is good or bad.
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Uma Shankari You are right abt. kamasutra, to understand desire and love , when it is bad and when it is good is all necessary, I agree with you, as I said the beauty abt. Hindu way of life is that each and everything has a rightful place in the universe- the ant and the elephant- and in its own sphere it is right. And you have the right and freedom to choose which way to go. Any way this is my understanding abt. Hinduism, and you may have a different one, and you are welcome to have one.  
Aparna Krishnan Uma, I have no fight against temple scluptures. Yes, I stand by the right of simple people and their simple gods being given due respect - except when there are practices we need to question, from sati to untouchability. The de-racinated will never understand this.
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Aparna Krishnan As much as my concern is village economics, as much is respect for their practices, their perspectives, their gods. Yes, imho, their ways are far superior to ours. I have been humbled before them and their generosity and their large heartedness time and again. I know you differ, and i request we let the case rest here.
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Rajeev R. Singh But didn't Krishna and Radha disrobe? What's wrong in that ? It was celebration of love. We Indians are great at it. There are hundreds of artists indian as well as foreign who celebrate Radha and Krishna in a state of disrobement . Its tasteful and natural. Why crib on this fundamental fact?
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Aparna Krishnan I have rested my case 
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దామోదర రెడ్డి mithunas at khazaraho and all temples are differant from this; as much as, a tapasvi being naked by quitting all pleasures is differant from nakedness of mad pornstars with full of materialistic deeds; raasaliila of radhakrishna is not about sex, but about trancedentality of relation... no temple have sexual positions of krishna.. only anonymous mithunas explaining tantra.
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దామోదర రెడ్డి Now what about this creative art?? we should honour their FOE too?? dipicting ultimate energy form maa kali as this??https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1249379745119152&set=a.177069129016891.47321.100001414145423&type=3&theater
May Singh
This guy Nilambar chakrabarti in India made a great painting depicting Kaali devi on jesus's lap holding a glass of wine and buddha in state of trance enjoying his ciggerate(could be weed too), and i really liked it in all honesty but i wonder why he left out the representative of the "most peaceful and tolerant" sect??..hmmm maybe i am too naive to understand, but rumors has it, he loves his head intact.
P.S. he is alive and well, wont face any persecution from the three religions depicted in the painting,my post wont be reported and i too shall remain alive and happy!! and once again its a great piece of art!
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Afsan Chowdhury In my research on religious attitude and behavior in Bangladesh I use class lenses. I find that ordinary people particualrly te rural and the poor have no problem with their faith practices and behaviours which in Bengal is an amalgam of several traditions. Its the urban middle who have this "identity" crisis and Facebook is their favourite haunting ground. The "secularist" idea is a Western imposition that it ends up refusing to allow ordinary people to practice their faith which in Asia is not a superfluous cultural act but part of the survival .mechanism. A lot of the problem starts because our academics and other elite study in the West and they promote the orientalist way of looking at various faith practices through external eyes. So if BJP in India and Hefazet e-Islam in Bangladesh are becoming stronger one of the causes is the contempt the ruling class shows towards the traditional in the name of modernism. Thanks Aparna Krishnan
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Paranthaman Sriramulu May I know what culture Bangladesh had before invasion of Islam.
Hefajat-e-Islam Bangladesh (Bengali: হেফাজতে ইসলাম বাংলাদেশ;) also known as Hifazat-e-Islam Bangladesh is an association based fundamentalist Islamic group in Bangladesh, was formed in January 2010.[2][3] This group was formed in 2010 to protest against the secular education policy of Bangladeshi government. In 2011, they held violent demonstrations against the women's equal rights policy of the government and in 2013, and became headlines after holding large rallies asking the government to take action against the Shahbag protesters, who are demanding capital punishment of Bangladesh liberation war criminals.[2][4][5][6] In 2013 this group warned the government with a 13-point charter, which includes banning the right of women to work outside, execution of so-called atheist bloggers and stopping Shahbag protests.[7][8] Although, the German ambassador in Bangladesh Albrecht Conze opined that Hifazat demands fundamentalism in Bangladesh,[1] diplomats from the US Embassy in Bangladesh met with the leaders of Hefazat
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Afsan Chowdhury Paranthaman Sriramulu Many thanks. They had a mix of Tantric Buddhism and Hinduism which again was drawn from animism of agro societies before which they had animist beliefs of movable agro migrants who are close to the North East India which continue till today. Since it was more connected to South East Asian cultures rather than North Indian societies the belief structures were evolved from such multiple sources as agriculture settled. , Vedic Hinduism had low penetration due to geographical barriers and Islamic invasion also had almost no penetration till Mughals arrived with agriculture. Essentially it's an agro society with low theological access to any organized religion. Thanks
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Prakash Thangavel Sex/violence sells, it is marketing strategy for money and fame. Just look at our daily newspapers..
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Aparna Krishnan Yes, maybe you are right.
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Susovan Maity all they wanted to raise the issues by ppl like u .. else probably god does not cares about them ..  
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Aparna Krishnan My point is not about the gods. Its about respecting people and their beliefs.
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Susovan Maity they just want to make useless noise ..
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Harish Balaskandan A person who is matured and understands the spiritual connectedness of cosmic life will not judge others nor ridicule. The audacity comes when they are religious but far from God!
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Prakash Thangavel And we are all idiots to fall for this marketing strategy debating, discussing and wanting to know more about stuff which we should be ignoring. Typical cine industry tactic to make a flop movie run for a few days by creating a controversy
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Aparna Krishnan Yes, and yet it is indicative of a larger malaise. Of the Educated Indiam having derision for local people and local sensibilities. That I think needs to be seen head on. I actually dont care about the foreign lady.
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Prakash Thangavel That is what education teaches -- derision for anything local. Most voicing outrage here for abuse won't care a hoot for drought in kerala, TN or loss of livelihoods in rural areas.
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Manidhar Gudavalli Though it should not matter, just correction. She is Muslim raised in France by immigrant parents from Algeria.
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Aparna Krishnan Never mind. She's irrelevent. Its the idea, and that it resonates with so many Educated Indians is our personal problem.
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Aravinda Pillalamarri Ah but we do have the right to mock our gods!
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Aparna Krishnan Yes, all devotees do. They also rage at their gods also. But not disparage of humiliate - as understood in their paradigm. Please, it is their paradign that matters, not the outsider's - that defines the boundries.
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Aravinda Pillalamarri no inside, no outside
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Aparna Krishnan sociologically, yes. There are groups, and communities. And insiders and outsiders.
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Aravinda Pillalamarri art and spirituality are not confined by sociological boundaries
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Aparna Krishnan anyway i speak from a village, and village sensibilities. anyway no point.
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Aparna Krishnan It is uncouth for an unbeleiver to get into the arena and mock at the gods of others - very uncivilized behaviour.
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Afsan Chowdhury Fully agree with you. The mockers are never ordinary people because their sense of the sacred ad the profane are very different from the FB lot. There is a fluidity and purpose of belief in traditional communities where all faiths are sacred. I have got into trouble more times in protesting this and superiority of one faith over another tan any other. I took a public position against Zakir Naik and faced the usual. And the next week after his ban I had to protest the stereotyping all Muslims as terrorists as another group. I suppose there is something about our education system that makes everyone insecure. Its probably about economics. Thanks
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Aparna Krishnan The Educated are a noisy, and arrogant lot. They think that their English Fluency proves their superior intelligence, and they can mock at the 'illiterate' and their beleifs. I wish they at least had the civility to not poke their nose into other people's spaces, like religion, and make derogatory comments, and also define that as Culture. Finally all the Englisg Educated Progressive Liberals will use Khajuraho to prove that they have the right to put up posters of all gods in undressed states. They are rather dumb, I have decided. Best left alone. Someday they will themselves realize their shallowness.
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Afsan Chowdhury Aparna Krishnan These people have become tourists in their own land. I am working on a documentary to explore inter-faith behaviour in times of war and fin looters who kill doesn't distinguish between faiths when it comes to criminal acts.. The EEPL seem to have their mind stuck in a Western University. For health reasons i have started to avoid them particularly on FB. Thanks
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Aparna Krishnan Yes, i agree. Sadly, they are sitting in all the policy making chairs.
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