Friday, 17 June 2016

FB Discussions The deification of degrees (1).

If an 8th pass or a 12th pass is a minister, the educated sneer.
I would think that a grounding and exposure as a farmer or an artisan, and a functional literacy, and a commitment, need to be the essentials for leadership for this country. 
Those grown up in affluence and in public schools, and schooled in intricacies of fourier transforms or management theories are deeply alienated from the people. If they desire, they may be clerks to the actual leaders who need to be from the people. Literate, and preferably most rooted in the local language.
More education only bestows more snobbery, and ensures a deep divide from the people. Yes, a very few transcend that handicap.
Chitra Sharan Ex CM Thiru Kamaraj is a standing example of how education just does not matter to be a leader. Heart in the right place and plenty of common sense is what is needed. Education most often than not gives complicated sense to people than common sense.
Komakkambedu Himakiran Anugula Kamarajar, case dismissed!
Komakkambedu Himakiran Anugula Uneducated himself but ensured maximum govt schools were built and educated millions, who are the ones who made TN the best state in any socioeconomic parameter.
Komakkambedu Himakiran Anugula Academics, Social activism would be nice things to have, but this notion that someone not educated won't deliver reeks of class bias. People who defended Smriti Irani are criticising Tejaswi. Ironical!
Naveen Manikandan Periasamy I agree with you that one should not be criticized solely for his/her educational standing viz a viz degrees. But, let us not get too carried away with unrestrained ideas about egalitarianism. A finance minister has to be erudite in modern economics. Smriti Irani in that sense is not a ideal choice for education minister, but she can definitely articulate her opinions(language is immaterial) clearly, unlike the person in question.
Komakkambedu Himakiran Anugula This is not egalitarianism, but grounding. For the past 25 years we've had world bank grade FMs and economists ruining India. Might as well have someone who understands village and local economics. Tejaswi himself said, dont judge a book by it's cover. Isn't that enough articulation in an elite friendly language?
Naveen Manikandan Periasamy //Tejaswi himself said, dot judge a book by it's cover. Isn't that enough articulation in an elite friendly language?// I'm sure you don't really take this one liner self-appraisal as a definite indicator of his 'hidden potential'. Reasonable judgements can be made about a person's capability based on a his past history and track record. I'm afraid there is no redeeming features in Tejaswi Yadav - none at all!
Komakkambedu Himakiran Anugula Well, looks like you've already made up your mind. 
Komakkambedu Himakiran Anugula Inspire winning the highest seats, he with his brilliant political mind made Nitish the CM. Modi with his corporate/upper caste backing had to concede defeat to Laloo.
Komakkambedu Himakiran Anugula Haha, dynastic? Name one field in India except agriculture, livestock keeping, fisheries and artisan work where there is no dynastic policies? When Rohan Murthy can be accepted in Infosys, I'll accept Tejaswi as a minister in Bihar. He's privy to one of the most brilliant political minds of India.
Naveen Manikandan Periasamy Right! I'm sure Bihar has benefited immensely from the enterprise and wisdom of this most brilliant political mind ,Lallu Yadav.
Komakkambedu Himakiran Anugula Ask the oppressed people over there. Just because the upper caste filled corporate owned media portrays him as bad, we don't have to believe it. He is not good or bad, he's just political.
Naveen Manikandan Periasamy Yes, The perception that Fodder scam is an actual scam is essentially perpetuated by the upper class mentality, whereas Lalloo was just being political.
Komakkambedu Himakiran Anugula Let the law take its course. We are not debating the scam or his part in it. I just said he has a great political mind which is a perceptive issue.
Naveen Manikandan Periasamy That political mind would benefit the masses if it comes out with ideas on governance, like Nitish Kumar does.
Komakkambedu Himakiran Anugula Well, he's used that to back Nitish, so why do you complain? 
Meanwhile the brilliant mind of Modi & Shah put up posters of cows in the 5th phase of the Bihat elections held in 4 eastern Bihar districts with high Muslim population. Muslim radical Owaisi also put his best efforts in that phase, both got the rightful thrashing by our politically savvy RURAL Bihar folks.
Naveen Manikandan Periasamy Granted, Lallo is cute and charming and hence he stands above 'upper class' criticism.
Komakkambedu Himakiran Anugula No the whole portrayal of him as a rural duffer is by the upper caste media and so called intellectuals and he plays to the galleries. He's a student leader from the JP movement. Most people don't know that.
Naveen Manikandan Periasamy One can be rural and uneducated and still maintain a dignified demeanor. On the other hand one can be highly educated and still be a buffoon .
Komakkambedu Himakiran Anugula "Rural and uneducated and still maintain a dignified demeanour". Haha, that's exactly the classist bias I mentioned.
Naveen Manikandan Periasamy Class, bourgeois, et all..We all know which school of thought prompts such misguided talk.
Komakkambedu Himakiran Anugula Haha, spoken like a true blue Nagpurite!

I hate Left as much as I hate the right!
Naveen Manikandan Periasamy That does not automatically make you a centrist. Taking words out of context and assuming a high moral ground by claiming to be above the so called 'class biases' as you put it, doesn't make your opinion sound any more reasonable than a leftist. You started the ad-hominem salvo, not me. 
Komakkambedu Himakiran Anugula Ad-hominen? What does that mean?
Naveen Manikandan Periasamy Attacking a person's character rather than rebutting/ dealing with the points raised. Essentially what the 'class bias' type arguments lead to.
Komakkambedu Himakiran Anugula Well, what do you say to someone who goes after someone's education credentials? 
Naveen Manikandan Periasamy Without mincing words, I have to say that anyone who supports politicians like Lalloo with misguided notions like 'class bias', 'corruption is better than communalism', 'goonda raj is better than riots', 'he represents the poor and lower classes', 'he is a cool, charming and astute politician', etc are guilty of abetting the most regressive brand of politics that has enslaved the people of our country for the past seven decades. You would do well to realize that so called seculars like Lalloo indulge in every dirty trick to divide the society based on caste and religion for securing their vote-bank.
Komakkambedu Himakiran Anugula Haha, BJP is upper caste politics!Anyone accusing politicians of caste politics needs to look at the parties they support. They will inevidently be upper caste!
Naveen Manikandan Periasamy Where did I support BJP here? In fact I tend to agree more and more with Markhanday Katju that every politician is deeply corrupt and the system needs a complete overhaul. It would be infinitely more acceptable to celebrate Nitish's or more broadly thecoalition's victory, but what you chaps are infact doing is celebrating Lalloo's victory and projecting him as a hero and savior of secularism. I hope you realize that this is a problem.
Aparna Krishnan We have had plenty of white collared white-men-in-brown-skins running the show, with sheer disdain for the illiterate masses. Believeing that the road to development can be lined with dreams and bodies of the illiterate masses. And then when they are moved out of villages into slums it is for their good. Give me men and women with village understanding in their blood. On their understanding, we will work. It will be rooted in reality. And finally, in respect. The 'feudal' landlord has greater understanding and respect for the SC that the educated activist (who calls them the 'masses') ! Yes, this I know goes beyond the pale of political correctness.
Education. modern education, carries a huge baggage. It alienates, makes supercilious, and teaches disdain. We need people rooted in indian ways (yes, that means 'less educated' !) taking charge. Give them a chance ! The 'uneducated' are rooted. The 'educated' are alienated and condescending. Even if all else was considered even (which I dont, but that we'll keep aside for now.). I will go for the rooted one.
And a potter or farmer would never have been welcomed. The elite would have been hooting at his accent and dress. We are more deeply snobbish than we knoe. There are layers and layers of conditioning to deal with.But do you think that if a 8th pass farmer were to rise, the educated elite could stomach it. they would be sure that he will drown the country, they would die of shame at his tamil-fluency and halting-english. Their deepest patriotic drives would come to the fore as they bewail the country's fate.
Also if a very corrupt harvard educated politician's son (also harvard educated) were to inherit the mantle, it would cause less heartburn than here.
The educated, because of their very education, are alienated from the people. In that sense I would prefer a man of the soil to lead. And, as for corruption, each has equal claim to that heritage. the elite cloak their corruption sometimes by making laws that legalize it ! Lallo's scam may have cost the country less than some hightly educated who sold the country at one stroke to IMF !

Doesn't lack of education lead to poor understanding and hence poor policies?
Not at all. Formal education often takes one away from people and society..
"The whole debate about educated or uneducated ministers is nonsense. What are you trying to prove ? That only the formally-educated ones have the right to rule? And those who did not have a chance to get formal education in a country where only 15% people reach college, have no right to be ministers? Don't forget we had Oxford, Harward, Yale, and IIT educated ministers, who have brought to this state of the country where 75% people go hungry!Let's challenge their policies and not their degrees!"

As if degress mean better understanding of the grassroots, or a greater commitment to people, or greater honesty ! 

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