FB Discussions - Issues with veganism (2)

 If one cares about animals, and about communities one needs a deeper perspective and understanding and action than becoming vegan.   The integrated picture has to be understood. There humans, and domesticated animals, and other life, and cultural practices and identities and much more exists. Unidimensional understanding and response can damage more.

1. Small farmers survive by selling milk from one or two cows. The cows are like family to them, and they take care. That milk sale is all that sustains them during droughts also.

2. Were milk to be unsaleable the poor farmer would be forced to abandon the cow, which would then simply wander and starve. There are no wild forests where the cow can go to and become a 'wild cow'.

3. Small children need milk for their well being. The village children flourished when they started having milk everyday.

Veganism addresses one aspect unidimensionally, and cannot stand ground in the larger picture seeking overall good. Yes, modern commercial diarying is perverted. As is everything in a large scale moderinsed civilization, for that matter. Modern production systems are a travesty against all sanity - in animal rearing, as in agriculture and in every modern centralized production.The solution is to create viable and sane systems of milk and cow care. That can actually only happen when organic farming also gets established as cowdung becones an important part of existance, and old cows and male cattle also stay revelent. Economics can never be bypassed in a larger sense.

My only submission is that (apart from personal choices, which are personal), I would choose to throw my work with creating humane cattle systems, rather than eliminate milk and cows and bullocks, or send them to zoos or to slaughter.

(via Karthikeya Sivasenapathy)

"The preaching’s of Veganism:

- Don’t drink Milk
- Don’t use any animal products
- Demean non-vegans to feel guilty and join the club
- Ban use of Animals in any kind work

Now we discuss the above with reference to Indian context:
- Indian diary industry comes 80% from small farmers who have a cow or two, which actually uplifts the whole family.. in terms of spend for the children education and food. By stopping the usage of Milk, the small farmer will be killed, Desi cattle will become extinct by slaughtering…. Both will help Factory farming with Jersey and HF cows and Will boost beef exports of Desi cattle abroad! So in total it will help the ‘beef lobby’..

- Right from Capsules to Sugar to Fashion to Tea to many others things, there are animal products which are consumed even by Vegetarians day to day… Hence the whole thing is a farce!

- Lack of Lactose and Proteins naturally makes them sick and intolerant.. So the frustration and desperation is shown in their behavior everywhere and more so on Social Media…. It’s more of an illness which they all develop over a period of sacrificing good food and desperately looking for alternative, which costs them a bomb…

- Last not the least, this is one among the reason for banning bullock carts in Mumbai and Bulls from Jallikattu!! Then what happened to those Bullocks and Bulls? They all went to slaughter as expected.. So Cruelty it is!, if the animal works, but going to slaughter is okay.. Absolutely a brain damaged concept…But PETA managed to use this opportunity to make millions and divide among the perpetrators is another story which we are well aware!"

There are four kinds of animal welfare activists in this country.

1. Emotionally troubled who catch hold of a dog or puppy post it in Facebook and claim their are animal lovers and animal rights activists . They will work for banks, MNC, I know a person in Coimbatore who is a executive director of a 2000 crore empire who is the spokes person of animal rights along with a senior executive of a MNC telecom tower manufacturing company . By manufacturing towers they kill millions of birds and that s their business but farmers using oxen to plough or Rekhla is cruelty . This is one crowd . They all eat humane non vegetarian I don't know what it means . 

2.elitists who believe others should pray to the God of the elitists , follow elitists custom in good be vegetarian etc etc . 

3. Vegans - they are in terrific confusion . 

4. The culprits behind all this - people heading rather controlling animal welfare in india and Usa - awbi, PETA , blue cross , HAS, PFCA, PCA, PFA, And all other members of the most corrupt animal welfare board of india .. They are the ones who are funded by tractor companies to wipe out native Bulls, foreign breed companies like Holstein , Fresian , jersey , swissbrown etc, beef lobby- 65000 crore 2015 - 16 exports last year in the country where we supposedly pray to go matha ... The head of this corrupt team is Menaka Gandhi , Chinni krishna and Nandita Krishan

(via Komakkambedu Himakiran Anugula)

Animal Liberation/Vegan argument against Livestock & it's fallacy

Milk is a byproduct of cattle. Traditionally in South India, dung & urine from cattle were valued more than milk. Even now many a place in rural TN will ask if you need "paal" tea, as in tea with milk. That's because usual tea is black tea. Having said that, this notion of milk of cows is only for calves is wrong. That's something that applies only to wild animals. Humans domesticated them 7000-8000 years ago and have done selective breeding according to their needs. People who were vegetarian & needed animal protein bred cattle into milch breeds like Kankrej, Gir, Tharparkar in Gujarat/Rajasthan region. People in the South who were almost completely meat eating and still are, didn't need additional animal protein and bred cattle for work/transport. These cattle are draught animals like Hallikar, Kangayam.

Domesticated animals cannot survive on their own. They are not the same as wild animals. Without human dependency, they will die out. Is this what the animal activists want? Extinction?

Vegetable Protein is not affordable for the masses and animal protein is the best bet for them. Livestock is also insurance against calamities in personal economic situation. If we don't consume, we lose and the livestock go extinct. It's a mutually beneficial relationship that is being attacked on all fronts by people without a connect to nature. Native Breeds give enough milk for the small & marginal farmer's family while also providing them the transport, dung/urine for manure and organic farming.

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Comments

Vignesh Kumar

Vignesh Kumar Over exploitation of livestock may also leads to extinction.# Still humans has affection over animals without mutual benefits!

Like · Reply · 4 January 2016 at 08:54

Mark Johnston

Mark Johnston What options are acceptable in self sufficient, autonomous, rural communities may not be the case for others in a wider world population of 7 billion that is, through taking their lead from the west, increasingly urban, increasingly unsustainable and increasingly greedy for meat and dairy. The urban rich and middle classes eating more unsustainably produced meat and dairy will, in the end, result in far more pressure on the land, destroying both wild areas along with their wildlife and traditional agricultural communities either directly by being taken over for more intensive farming or through the effects of climate change. To me subsistence farming communities should not be the target for urban populations that need to find ways to change their own unsustainable lifestyles on so many levels. The other side of that may be that in challenging veganism as one aspect of such communities trying to reduce their impact we may hasten the destruction of the very communities we would wish to protect. Veganism was so rare in India when our family spent four months there a number of years ago it is hard to imagine it being significant enough to raise hackles so successfully now. New vegans, like any evangelists, can often do more harm than good by spending more time and energy demanding change from others than in simply being a good example of being the change they want to see.