Thursday, 6 October 2016

FB Discussions - Vegetarianism and the fine print

Why is my Hindu cow loving community only discussing beef eating ?Modernity, industrilisation, global warming, plastics ... is all destroying animals (including cows) at a far more virulent pace than non vegetarianism. Cows grazeing on plastic waste in garbage bins are found dead with 40kg plastic in their stomachs.

I suppose it is simple to abuse others. And hard to change oneself - to avoid buying things in plastic wrapping, to choose to cycle and bus rather than go in cars, to stop using ACs,

My community of Hindus ... some honesty is in order !
Zakeena Seethi Mam, it is not at all about eating beef in the first place. Had it been so, they wouldve forced the govt to force shut the beef exports. India features high in the list of beef exporting countries. No east Indians are attacked. All the 5Star hotels are licensed to serve beef. Here someone was instructed to ignite passion n violence. It is indeed worrisome
Gyan Mitra Aparna Krishnan This is how people are manipulated. The HEART energy centre ( Chakra ) can manifest three feelings viz Love, Fear and Hate. Only one manifests at a time. An manipulative politician manipulates a situation through a thought process to create feelings of fear or hate. Are some people running experiments to test people's minds ?
Swarna Latha Yes, yes, yes. i truly am disgusted to see smartphone in one hand, multiple plastic bags of vegetables in the other. 

Swarna Latha
If you love cows and care for them, you have three choices: Choice A: Build goshalas or cow shelters…|By Devdutt Pattanaik
Samir Patil Gau Mata is the starting point...
Aparna Krishnan Reduce plastics drastically and lets not allow her to commit suicide thro' feeding on it. Reduce petroleum consumption, bring back organic agricultire, and the cows and bullocks will have a valid place and will be protected. Otherwise we can keep screaming uselessly forever.
Komakkambedu Himakiran Anugula Cow is a tool to target the Muslims & Dalits. Once that is done, they will discard it.
Samir Patil Such comments are not good for Samvad on the issue. perhaps so may even say that unwittingly it shows the face behind veneer of concern for Gau, dharmic ecology, environmental issues. You read politics where there the issue of Moral and ethical. The real struggle is between civilizational values of Abrahamic and Dharmic tradition. If Muslims wants to impose values of that tradition in India it will get resistance. I had never heard of Dalits in major Part of norther, Central and Western India ( not aware of Southern part) eating a Slaughtered Gau mata. Some of them did consume dead Gau mata. We are aware of Missionary designs to create and or increase divide in Sanatana society.
Samir Patil Even Gandhi ji solemnly pledged in Banaras that When Indian Gets Freedom, First and foremost he will get Cow-Slaughter banned in the statue. We don't know that happen then :(
Aparna Krishnan My village people eat beef. That is the cheapest meat. They eat rarely because they are very poor. They are extremely malnourished. They have cause the least pressure on India's ecology. Far less than well off vegetarians going around in AC cars. In today's day and age anyone concerned about cows and all animals needs to question modernity, and industrilisation and the development paradigm. Without that honesty, which includes pointing fingers at oneself, I am least interested in any discussion.
Aparna Krishnan Gandhiji clearly said that this cannot be a Law, and only discussions and debates are possible.
Komakkambedu Himakiran Anugula What is Samvad? How does that matter to me?

We've been living for thousands of years in harmony with everyone. I don't want some Nagpur school to tell me what my religion is.

The same people are exporting beef. The same people introduced 5 GMO crops in Maharashtra. The same people want to introduce GM Mustard. The same people promoted water intensive sugarcane cultivation in Marathwada and now are looking the other way when thousands are committing suicide.

Stop blaming everything on Muslim invaders and Christian missionaries. You make it seem like Hindus are incapable of anything and only listen to outsiders.

Until the social systems of the villages were in place, India was glorious. It was the hard work of the farmers and livestock keepers, artisans, traders etc which made the world turn to India. Not the writings of self isolated people.
Komakkambedu Himakiran Anugula We also know beef is just one thing. Already meat eating is being targeted.

The food habits of 2-3% population is being forced on the rest. This is the real minority appeasement.
Aparna Krishnan I agree. Because I see things from my own village. A community which gives most to the nation (its labour in the fields), and takes least (they are malnourished !) is being told to correct itself ! Rich people, burning a hole in the ozone layer, and causeing deaths thro' their very livlihoods feel smug and holy because they eat vast varieties of vegetarian foods and delicacies.
Samir Patil @Komakkambedu Himkiran Angula, There is factual error in your statement . Yogendra Yadav conducted a survey that counted vegetarian population around 33-36%. The other vast majority too are occasional non-vegetarian. then out of these slaugthered Gaumata eaters are very very small. Had it not been the case Gandhi ji and numerous leaders wont have subscribed to it!
Samir Patil @ Aprana there is a lot of confusing mixing-up in your statement. Labourers give 'most' to nation accepted. but there exploiter is a system that is pro industrialization etc. This order is anti dharmic. My point that poor labour are not poor out of value choice. labourer, Dalit and OBC when get rich are no less consumerist and hedonist. And if at all there is suggestion to improve nourishment level by slaughtering and eating Gaumata, then I have nothing more to say.
Komakkambedu Himakiran Anugula First of all, do you agree to all of Yogendra Yadav's studies? He has done many blaming the BJP ruled states too.

Secondly, Muslims, Christians, SCs and STs make up 42% of the population. They all eat beef. Amongst the OBCs who make up 41% of the population, many groups eat meat as per their local custom.

Just because few communities don't eat meat, forcing others is diabolical.
Aparna Krishnan I am saying that often the poorest communities eat beef. And their damage potential is low because of their very poverty. The rich and consuming communities are the ones that are destroying the very fabric of this earth. May we concentrate of the most damageing factor, which is primarily excessive consumption. We will come to non vegetarianism next - if we need to. The whole beef dialogue, without questioning development (which is farthest from the present government's pro- corporate agenda) is an exercise in obfuscation, and simply a targetting of certian communities. The cow certianly will not survive on her plastic diet. Old cows will be abandoned without organic agriculture being established where cowdung is gold.
Samir Patil No But I thought his would be a conservative figure that could be palatable to you! 80% hindus detest Gaumata Slaughter. Not clear how many of converted people like killing Cow but from my acquaintance I see a lot of them don't like that there roots are also in Dhramic values of this land. If you are democrat a national referendum of this will be eye opening. Thus the strategy of anti dhramic people has been to weaken the grip of Dhramic values through education, pop culture an divisive political alignments. divide and rule...
Samir Patil @ Aparna, Now I am not aware that traditional poorest communities TN and southern part have been traditionally ‘Cow eaters'. Need your inputs on that. But damage potential you speak of is very 'materialist' once. The damage it does to Manas of an individual is no little a sin. In fact the a lot of moral values and conception of Rasa (loosely feelings) come from close co-existence of Dhramic people and Gau. From word Vatsa (for son/kid), Vatsalya rasa of mother and Bhakta Vatsalya Guna of God comes from Gau. Did you ever think why all encompassing concept of ahimsa didn't develop in Abrahamic tradition or even Iranian culture? It was because Dharmic Varnashrama order narrowed the Himsa karma to (Vyadha/khatika) people having inclinations for it. Compare this to the Eid Slaughter etc. where in whole family from kids to women watch gory killings and take part in it. What effects it would have on the psyche of such onlookers?
Komakkambedu Himakiran Anugula 80% detest? First of all, stop talking for Hindus. You really want to do a referendum? Then the Nagpur school will be thrown out of this country.

Talking about dharmic values, with blood of innocents on the fingers.

Let the communities decide if they want to or not. The ideology of a few who've never been part of the masses cannot be allowed to pervert the country.
Karthikeya Sivasenapathy Very true Hima ... Well said ..
Aparna Krishnan Samir, I am no longer willing to theorise. Because my village people offer hens and sometimes goats as sacrifice - which is reasonable as people offer their gods their food. And the dharmam they practice, to the extent of giving to every hungry person who asks even when they have neither food at home, nor livlihood in the drought - that I cannot see my welloff vegetarian community do !
Karthikeya Sivasenapathy Hima simple let's follow Vedic culture simple ... What does Vedas say about eating beef ?

99 % of cow lovers are for rhetoric only and to target the poor Muslims and Dalits in to submission... India is a secular county not a Hindutva country ... Problem is RSS culture being imposed on us
Samir Patil Without any compunction you speak of Muslim, Christians and ST and SC Hindus together and feel offended when I speak of Hindus, muslims and Christians separately. Great clarity and logic! All anti national powers have been trying hard to destabilize Nagpur but they don't know the divine will. Second you are concerned by blood of innocent, do also show the same concern for innocent blood of Hindus and heathen spilled across India and world by the abrahamic religious cults. Third communities decide though elections or man of great conviction. but unfortunately Gauhatya won't be supported either by Indians and any saintly leader... Its pity that feeding on Missionary propaganda and half baked dravidianism people can become so blind that they favour killing of Gaumata... But I shall stop further argument here for we all have right to have our ideas and thoughts... and we then who knows what it truth and greater good... Hope we all move towards that and meet there
Komakkambedu Himakiran Anugula I feel offended when you speak for the Hindus!

Why do you need foreign investment, oil from countries where Abrahamic religions are official religions?

Why should the brave and mighty Nagpur thinktanks allow India to be used by MNCs for dumping their cheap products?

What do the Dharmic warriors go when the farmers commit suicide?
Samir Patil I won't be arguing now but to put things in place. (1) Aparna ia better qualified to answer first question why we need FDI. I am against that and also the Industrailization, Monetization GDP developmental model. I I am more tuned with devinder dharma on agriculture and economics. (2) I feel in Nagpur is not a monolith. There are Gadkari and Arun Jaitley and also Govidacharya and Gurumurthy. But majority views works. (3) Some dharmic warriors help Gau Sevakas farmers, some assist in promoting their products, organic etc, But this is very small in comparison to need. There is need to inculcate Aprigraha ( Aprana wrote on that before) and use excess to help the community... and Dharmics and (others) too should do that. Like Islamists Dawah etc. in true universal spirit
Aparna Krishnan When we are all against FDI and modern development maybe we need to pull forces together on that and question the present government on that, and its selling away rivers and forests to its corporates. Once economic model becomes sane, and localised many other things will fall in place. including value to cattle.
Komakkambedu Himakiran Anugula Not to be argumentative but, all the people you mentioned are people I value, follow. But they themselves are sidelined by the same RSS and it's govt.

As for Nagpur not being a monolith, well they have their brainwashed foot soldiers everywhere to do
the damage.

Neither the goshala model nor the medicinal products model have saved cattle. Only if you are from a village you will understand livestock. When a farmer sells an old cow, he uses that money to buy younger ones. If there is no one to buy, how will he sell?

All this perversion of the livestock ecosystem will only lead to

1) abandonment of old/sick cattle as seen in Gujarat, Rajasthan where they are hit by vehicles on the highways or die of starvation and thirst.

2) Farmers quitting using cattle.

Then, will be have cows in a zoo or goshala to safe them?
Samir Patil I broadly agree. We accepted Western economic order without proper localization. This order dictates political, academic and even aesthetic discourse. I too am pretty pessimist on this. Farm mechanization and hybrid cows, buffallos are killing local Gaumata and bulls. anti Farm policies and MNERAGA etc is killing farming. You rightly speak of old cows left to fend themselves in Gujarat and Rajsthan etc. but Govts. took the community grazing lands and very intelligently gave a bit of it to ST SC and majority of lands are diverted for public utility and development. If people start demanding Ahimsa Cow milk; (TDM) and Pathmeda is doing, and it picks up there can be some hope. But that is value things that are being weakened through education, pop culture etc. If gulf upheaval escalates to europe makes fossil fuel dearer and weaken monitory order we can expect some change.
Manidhar Gudavalli Some people need some one to hate. Often, minorities/vulnerable are the target of the hate.
Vishwanath Sangeetham Some of our friends they want travel in globalization,but they will speak about our cow,dung,urine
Aparna Krishnan Let this be addressed. But for this we will have to work, reduce our own consumption pattern, go far to shops that dont use plastic packageing ... easier to abuse those who eat beef and kill them.
Mark Johnston Many years ago I was hitch hiking in England and got a lift in a lorry transporting livestock. The driver was calling vegetarians hypocrites. When I asked him why he thought this he told me that he was transporting calves that were destined to become veal and that he had picked them up from a large Hare Krishna community who had knowingly sold their 'surplus' calves on to this cruelest side of the meat trade. Sometimes we human beings find it easier to attack a supposed enemy than to try and tackle our own shortcomings. Surely it is better to set a good example by being the change we wish to see than to try to force others to live as we think they should.
Aparna Krishnan absolutely.
Aparna Krishnan I also think vegetarians are hypocrites. We feel holy about not eating meat, and condemn any number of animals through our consuming lifestyle, and though our careers which exacerbate climate changes and consequent vast destructions, near and far.

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