Thursday, 3 November 2016

FB Discussions - Plastic Surgery in Ayurveda.

November 3, 2014 at 1:38pm 

The PM has made some comment on plastic surgery having been done on Ganesha. Much ridicule has been poured on this for his lack of scientific thinking.

I have serious objections both to his statements, and to the objections made by others - and my own reasons are different.

To the PM
1. Ganesha and the stories are of religious significance to people. The work was of god's, as they say. To reduce it to plastic surgery is to mock at people and their gods. 

To the Critics
2. Plastic surgery has existed in ancient India - with procedures clearly documented in Charaka Samhita and Sushruta Samhita - our foundation texts even for present day Ayurveda practice. The glories of our ancient past does not interest me very much, as it is the present that I am worrying about. But sometimes the past does establish the present.  


To the PM and his Critics

3. Why should the myths or ancient science need to be couched in the language of modern science except that is seen has the most credible of all systems. That the religion of modern science is crowned as the most authentic of all religions is problematic.

At the alter of modern science is sacrificed all that does not measure upto its process of 'scientific validation'. That includes religion, the mantrams of my village people, existances and processes that place value on beleifs that do not fit into 'modern science'.  

Vipin Sharma Science is nothing but a rediscovery of already present facts, who knew about electricity before it was invented, but positive and negative charges and conductors of electricity were always present similarly who knew about uses of crude oil, it was only after the invention of automobile engines that the use of crude oil as petroleum and gas was invented do we mean to say that crude oil never existed. Science is a re-discovery of facts that are uncovered due to man's thinking and enterprise. Stories of myth are more in the nature of metaphysics rather than physics, these stories depict mythical deities as energies rather than physical forms, metaphysics and study of various energies is a scientific branch in itself that is yet to be explored fully. But then who knew about mobile phones and internet just 50 years ago, what to talk about thousands of years in the past, I think science has to come a full circle to truly understand the metaphysical truths about energies and the nature of matter itself as quantum physics and string theories are striving to prove that matter can indeed be broken down into nothingness.
Piyush Manush
Piyush Manush makes a lot of sense!!
Aparna Krishnan
Aparna Krishnan Piyush, was expecting some brickbats from your end !
Piyush Manush
Piyush Manush aiyoo . .. why this impression amma !
 
Gokul Kenath
Gokul Kenath It may not be exactly a great thing to directly relate puranas to scientific discoveries even though it certainly presents an idea. But, it is no way means that India lacks scientific heritage. As much as India is famous for its philosophical and cultural heritage, it also has a great deal of scientific heritage even though most of the moderners are completely unaware of it.
Gokul Kenath
Gokul Kenath When you have time, please watch this video by Dr N Gopalakrishnan on India's scientific heritage. Things would be more clear on this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yIoBsYNjHA


 
Aparna Krishnan
Aparna Krishnan to 'scienticize' religion is a very 'modern' approach - because in modernity science is the most sacred. 

Modi also clearly subscribes to this modern view. My village people keep their religion separate and holy and in its place, and their secular studies are in their place.
Gokul Kenath
Gokul Kenath There are a few relations among a few practices, rituals and a few scientific principles. Then again, it has to be analyzed at such individual practices level, not a generalization at the religion level :) There is lies the difference.
Aparna Krishnan
Aparna Krishnan meaning ?
Gokul Kenath
Gokul Kenath Meaning, a religion is a collection of millions of such practices and ideas. Some will be scientific, some will be completely non scientific. Very dangerous to generalize everything into one label.
Aparna Krishnan
Aparna Krishnan yes. science has a limited space. faith has a limited space, tradition another limited space - to make science the God (as is being done today) is a problem. And is most superstitious !
Gokul Kenath
Gokul Kenath Learning E=MC squared will give me a scientific information; but, it is not enough to make my mind calm; it is not enough to give me that inner peace. That is where science alone will not be enough for a human. Otherwise, we all can recite Pythagoras theorem and Einstein's principles every morning instead of Vishnu Sahasranamam or Gayathri Manthram ;)

For peace of mind and such things, you need to have something else than just the material science :)
Aparna Krishnan
Aparna Krishnan Not just peace of mind ... even at a secular level there are many many systems and knowleges. science is only one of them. my village people treat with herbs, with mantrams, with antrams ... and though my 'scientific' mind looks with interest at the herbs, and dismisses the others ... i realize the sense of superiority, and the arrogance in my dismissive attitude. and i see it in others of my class and clan also.
Gokul Kenath
Gokul Kenath The important point is to identify what comes under the scope of science and what comes under the scope of faith and not to confuse or interfere one with the other.

It is like the eyes and the nose. Eyes are the pramanam for sight; what eyes see, the nose cannot confirm nor deny. Similarly, the nose alone are the pramanam for smell; what nose smells the eyes cannot confirm nor deny.

This needs to be remembered. It is a very wrong practice to try to approve or disprove scientific findings by using the ideas of faith and equally wrong to try to interpret the rights and wrongs of matters related to faith using the scientific principles.
Aparna Krishnan
Aparna Krishnan this worship of science and scientific spirit to the exclusion of all else is so superstitious.
Aparna Krishnan
Aparna Krishnan well, speaking of 'ancient science', in ayurveda i see that the last word has been said in the Brihad Trayi - Charaka Samhita, Sushruta Samhita and Ashtanga Hrudaya. Today as we have addressed auto immune conditions like SLE, incurable cases like haemophilia, and many other intractable conditions, we have proceeded on these texts alone (and others like Sarangadhara, Madhava Nidhana ... all from ancient to medeival times). this is all i have seen closely - and thereby can imagine the wealth of ancient sciences.
Aparna Krishnan
Aparna Krishnan Allopathy seems a nascent empirical science before Ayurveda, when the latter is seen at depth - in theory, and in the hands of a competent practitioner.

1 comment:

  1. Probably science and religion are complementary rather each ultimate. each is incomplete whole to life. Both are based on faith or belief and imagine. science is also begins as predict/ imangination at its hypothetical level and then may or not proved.

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